You know the one that is used in reference to professional woman; woman you can obtain for money.
I knew the word growing up but never used it; it’s a nasty word that has evolved in the Amharic language to become part of the everyday vocabulary. S this and S that…
Nowadays it’s the norm for most Ethiopians to vacation in Ethiopia. Most go there at least once every few years. And obviously people are going to talk about the changes, the population growth in Addis, the number of new buildings… and of course the S‘s
S this and S that… Apparently S’s are hot, amazing looking, and are everywhere. Some Ethiopian males travel to Ethiopia quite often because they can get attention from a certain type of girls they’re not used to. Ostensibly, a short borcham can get model looking abesha girl just because his money is worth ten times the local birr.
I’ve even heard a few guys say “ef the girls here” I can go to Ethiopia and get a beautiful girl. Hence the jargon ‘import exporter.’ You can import a girl from Ethiopia and she will export herself ones she gets here. Or vice versa, it’s now in fashion for a rich Mercato Negade’s import a girl from the US and marry her. Apparently they think if the girl is coming fromt he US she is not after his money. Ha
From the ladies, I hear complaints. They insult the S’s and claim that they are not extraordinary looking. They are gold diggers, and these problem needs to be resolved… etc and blah blah…
From others, I hear complaints about the value of integrity, love lost, money and relationship issues. S this and S that…These girls are tarnishing the country!
The individuality of Ethiopians is to make sure no laundry is aired out. Keep it private and the ‘Problem in the mirror may appear smaller than they actually are.’ Ostensibly, ‘we are facing an extraordinary problem.’
Oh Please…
No one can deny that the world might be better of if money and affection were not interchangeable but the fact remains, it is. The more successful a man becomes financially, the better looking woman he can attract.
S’s exist everywhere and they are cheap, for a hundred dollars in any city including in the US you can sleep with professional S’s. Multiply that with three, and you can contract a woman that you never thought you would ever see let alone touch.
An acquaintance of mine once told me that he had made arrangement with a 20 year old in which he paid half her rent and in return she sleeps with him up to 6 times a month. He said I can afford it and she needed the money…it was a relationship with no drama for 500$. That is a good deal, but I wonder if there was someone else for the other half of the rent?
The fine ART of digging GOLD in the OPEN. There are websites that connect golddigee and gold-diggers.
Some men want to be successful just so that they can get more or better woman. And success and money have always and will continue to be an attractive quality to woman. Money and sex go together and it will not change anytime soon so why are we exaggerating the S problem as extraordinary when it is an ordinary one?
The prevalence of the “S” word suggests that the answer could lie in the fact that it maybe because the dirty laundry is airing out in the open.
Published by November 8th, 2007 in Current Issues and Dating.
If you ever read the Amharic Best seller ‘Konjowochu’ there is some paragraph about buying ‘S’;..its realy funny…
The writer questions ”Minew endet sew lezih yikeflal ,tezegajito benetsa yemitadel eyale?”
Dude, i find the generalizing nature of this statement utterly disturbing.
Demo the ‘S’ word itself is very demeaning and one sided. It bites the woman who is labelled as that without any room for lambasting the man at the other end that is part and participle of facilitating the acquisition of that name. It takes two to tango is what i’m saying and if we are calling names, a demeaning word of that nature should be attached to the man who thinks a piece of paper with an economical value attached to it can fetch him any woman. And there are plenty of those around these days.
I think it all falls down to confidence and knowing of the self. A man who is confident in his person without the burdern of flashing his dollar bills won’t fail to match up with a woman who is confident in her own abilities to succeed in life without the burden of dolling up to find someone to breeze her through life. When one fails to play Christopher Columbus to his own soul and discover himself/herself is when he/she succumbs to the pettiness of commodifying love and sex biye hasaben bezih equachalew!
Interesting article though.
Hmmm,
Intersting read…..i just heard that they now refer to them as (mchoch) in Addis…
I always wonder the diffrence b/n the girls that ask for money for sex versus those that are attracted to a man who’s rich…are they both S….if so that means by virtue of one looking for a finacialy stable person they become an S.
Nolawi, it seem like u are also implying that there are some S’s that are exported from US. “it’s now in fashion for a rich Mercato Negade’s import a girl from the US and marry her”
I guess one good thing about being poor is u get less S.
Nol, LOL @
M’lady, afe quriT!
Forgive me please but I swear I can’t figure out what the ‘S’ word is referring to…
)?
I mean I have an inclination…Shermuta? (My apology for those of you who may find it offensive that the whole word is actually spelled out, am just trying to get a clear picture of the article).
I know he started out with ‘…proffessional woman you can obtain for money’…which lead me to the above possibility but reading the article in its entirety somehow I feel that may not be what Nolawi is talking about because he does mention those women who come to the U.S. by way of marriage (well in this case a rich marriage) minamin so I doubt he would be calling all them rich marrying woman that…or perhaps he is, am just confused. Can someone care to tell me what the ‘S’ word stands for? Street girl? (as my grammy calls it setitu girl
I find it rather disturbing to see the usage of ‘importing’ and/or ‘exporting’ in relation to women… like endeLekuwanda siga, oh well I guess that is why such institution as ‘meat market’ exists so why be surprised, no?
MLady thank you for bringing a balance to the ‘justice’ scale… can’t get to the yolk with out cracking the shell.
Yekeydama, I think you got the s word right
.
*sniffs the air*
oooh … is that the new scent? “Subtle Misogyny” from Aremene Exchange?
hm. ok. then.
I have few questions on this article
Where does she export herself once she get here?
So if a women marries for money she is labeled as an ‘S’? (didn’t most traditions had that money exchange ritual before a marriage like “telosh” where the man pays for the bride before he marries her. or dawry…?)
What is the point of this article really?
The new word for these women in Addis is “Meshinash Worq”
I have to start by saying that it was a real fun reading all the topics.This was my first time and I’m proud of your open view of all our problems,you have to excuse my faults for I live in french speaking country and I don’t use english at all so my english is a bit rusty.
I had a very special incounter with my Ethiopian sisters living in Ethiopia when I was in a vacation with some male friends.As I was the only girl in the group I went every where with them and saw how easy it was to find a sex buddy for the night,and as sad as it is I understood those women,It is not only the hope of a better life or the promising wallet of the guy.some of this girls are addicted to the life style!Like going to the right places(the last famous club),being dressed with the leatest fashion(which is not important here in Europe),drink as much as you can cause you are not worried about the price,etc…..I talked with some exceptional women who explained to me why she was with almost eveybody on the group and I was speechless cause for this exceptionaly beautiful girl the reason was the parting the free drink and the chance to see her friends.and there are some girls with real family résponsibilities,a child, parents, brothers and sisters and if all she has to do is sleep with this ugly guy to pay the rent or a new shoes or a school to her brother so let it be
We have to remember that all women need assurance(sécurity) once she gets older or get over her frist heart break.So not all of them are money hunters or s.. but people in need of some thing good or bad.As it is in all poor cuntries it is a direct result of Being poor.
We should have a site for Ethiopians dating Ethiopians out side of Ethiopia
very good topic.
Nolawi said “Ostensibly, a short borcham can get model looking abesha girl just because his money is worth ten times the local birr.”
Sad but so true. The borcham comes back to the US and talks about all the beautiful girls he had in Addis and how the Ethio girls in the US can’t compare with them this and that etc.
The sad part is most of these girls may not live to be 30, 40 50 etc. I blame it all on poverty….
I went to Ethiopian 2 years ago and a girl asked me if I knew any one who I can hook her up with she said it does not matter if he is 80, is blind in one eye, can’t walk etc. She just wants to go to America.
You guys are a bunch of snobs.If a guy offers his money in exchange for sex, then he is as “S” as the girl that is offering her body.It is mutually agreed upon exchange. why does it matter whether the guy is short, bortcham, tall, handsome or ugly. does it make it okay if he was the Abesha Fabio? also a borcham isn’t entitled to get a beautiful woman? Some guys use their looks to get women and others use their money or status. Welcome to reality.
Afe kurit yibelilih stekini .
Whats up Nolawi ???!! what the hell is all that hate towards women . I suggest what Masinko said – tinish Christopher Columusinet yasfeligihal nefsu . Jeez.
Kebebushye tebarekilign… thanks for the confirmation
Selam2 LOL isn’t that applicable to all women alike? I like to think so
I suppose, conversely, a woman dumb as a brick, neither with an ambition for success nor with its achievement of it & who is dirt poor has always been and will continue to be an alluring quality to a man. Mts.
Funny thing happened tonight. I was at a birthday party bartending with a friend. Reasonably good looking guy comes over and requests a drink while reaching for his pocket and taking out a seriously HUGE wad of cash rolled in a rubber band. Friend tells him it’s not a cash bar and he does not have to pay. He says “i know, it’s for you,” and throws a $10 bill on the table and leaves with his drink. Few minutes later, dude is back for another drink and reaches again for the roll….told by another person, he does not need to pay…but he mashkenters a $20 and takes his drink. Third time, homeboy is asking me for a beer and unrolling his dough in the similar fashion and i snap sweetly “You don’t need to leave any money!!! Nope, gets his drink and throws another $20. At this point i want to say “ef you” but hey it ain’t my party and i’m not gonna be stirring up no shit.
Anyways, first of all walking around with that much cash is highly questionable. Secondly, all you men out there who think it’s impressive, guess what IT’s NOT. You just end up looking like an idiot – which he did!!! Seriously, if the education you’re getting on how to get a girl is from watching the latest hip hop videos then nebsoch, your frontal lobe needs some slapping cuz it ain’t doing what it’s supposed to!!
Yemiyasazinew, he was a good looking fella…perhaps if he used his mouth to talk instead of his money, he wouldn’t have ended up being such a cliché.
Esti show me where in this article I have been critical to woman… If anything I was critical about the people who exaggerate the situation…..
and those who deny the situation… the world is not ideal…. but real…
Intereting topic. And the Meshnash worq part is really funy.After all we read all this besides the fun part, what is here we can pick up? It is absulutely true that what’s discussed is what we ctually see since…who knows when. I also share morning’s idea.
My wife is in addis for a short trip (work related) and really miss her.Now that our anniversary is on the corner, I want to send her a flower to her office. Does any one know who provides such service in Addis? ( like if I can call and order from here.) Just let me know if you know anything. Thanks guys.
Last I heared there were some in stadium and bole area .They do deliveries .You might want to try those at the sheraton and hilton as well.
Sorry ,I am not good with names .
G.Luck
I think it is more to do with a one sidedness than anything (perhaps sub-consciously and more importantly reflective of generally how society operates)…no one is denying the existence of women (ours or any race and men for that matter) who trades with their body. The injustice is when we turn our nose up at the woman more so than the man in this mutual business transaction.
Society would refer to a male who does the very same thing as being a “male escort” (I suppose in an attempt to ‘legitimize’ his position) where as the woman is a whore, hoe,slut & the very “S” word we are discussing here… similarly a woman who has made her way up the corporate ladder and is trying to maintain her rightful spot just as her counter part will be referred as a ‘bitch’, ‘stuck up’, ‘ice queen’ etc where the male is rewarded as a ‘hard-baller’, Mr. no-none sense etc
What was it they say? It’s just how the cookie crumbles I suppose… anywho…
Bole Bolale you might find the following link helpful…good luck and Happy Fikir Rikendling
http://www.africanmarket.com/front/prodtype.asp?prodtype=458
Nolawi, Bole Bolale is talking take notes….
What about all the men that marry successful women ?This is also becoming highly prevalent in the habesha community in states especially . The ” not so successful” men – going after the successful women . I can name one too many of them in my own family and circle of friends. Educated and successful women are seen with men who do not match their success stories . On the positive side … it could be love. But also , I know for sure the bal market for a nurse is much much higher than that of a waitress. so what do you say about that?
The reality is , the rules of the game have changed . maybe in the old days one can point fingers at the women as being “s” but these days, no no no – it is going both ways. That is the reality Nolawi . Don’t just look at it from the male side of the story .
asteyayet
I agree with you totally. I agree when u said they are interested in what you
do than who you are? I was struggling to make to improve my life while working very odd jobs. I never recieved any serious offers for relationships. When i thought i was on dates it turned out to be a case where they were seeking sex not relationship.
I was confused as to why i never found relationships even though i am a very good girl. I couldn’t see what i was missing. After struggling for almost four years studying part time i am in my dream college. Now it is so strange why i am all of a sudden asked for not just relationships but marriage.
Masinkomelody:
Isn’t it interesting how easily we can over simplify difficult, real world issues from the comfort zone of the land of milk & honey? While we in the US may have the time & means to play Columbus with our Niña, Pinta & Santa María (i.e we have resources for our expeditions/quest for self discovery), that poor girl in ET is trying to discover her next meal (not just for herself but in most cases her whole family). How is that succumbing to pettiness? She is in survival mode & thus has no time for Oprah’s live your full life BS. She doesn’t even have a canoe… So forgive me if I don’t share your “biased” views. I say biased b/c it’s really not an accurate assessment unless you have “walked” is the S’s shoes. Having said that, I do agree w/ you on the demeaning & degrading quality of this word. And your are absolutely right about the fact it takes “two” & sometimes three or four – when you factor in the exchange rate – to tango. So what to do about the imbalance here? Do we come up w/ another insulting & stigmatizing name for the borchi’am mela’ta just for equality sake or do we just leave two consenting adults to act of their own free will, no matter how morally abhorrent? I choose the latter. Until Ethiopian girls (I chose this on purpose) are empowered & provided w/ resources i.e. alternative route to attain the necessities of life (food, shelter etc…) sex (not love) will continue to be a “commodity” to be traded.
BTW for all of you “enlightened” women that keep insisting $$$ is not impressive – Dennis Rodman was once voted the 50 sexiest men by People magazine some years back. I rest my case. Alhamudi, the handsome grey-haired grandfather, changes sexy young 20 somethings like Bernos T’s (I hear now even the men are lining up.) So perhaps what you mean is flaunting it may not be as impressive. That I can agree with…
Ofcource I would have to agree, that not only woman are like that… having a good resume will make you more attractive both male or female….
lol uberman… hehehe
then why go ahead and write a long a$$ article about the female “s” only ???!!! just curious.
ubernman , I dont think the article is about the women in the “survival mode” back home. Nor is it about the miskin gebere who gets less than $1 a day for all the hard work he does year to year . Its a bout the “s” who do it by choice .
Dennis Rodman , that is funny. Good point.
Uberman …Nice flow …Wht i don’t agree with :-
that poor girl in ET is trying to discover her next meal
I think there are other ways of earning money wiht out chagning a whole generation of younge men and women to prostitutes .FYI ,Most of them have more than enough to survive on .Its the life style they can’t live with out .Wht ever happned to good old morality and not exploiting ppl for their money .
we just leave two consenting adults to act of their own free will, no matter how morally abhorrent?
I guess here it all depends on how you define consent .Consent as far as I know should involve two parties that have full information about wht they are getting in to.
BTW for all of you “enlightened” women that keep insisting $$$ is not impressive Dennis Rodman was once voted the 50 sexiest men by People magazine some years back.
So wht ?…the fact that you are writing this statment invalidates his nomination .money bought him votes but not acceptance .
Just thinking
Because this article is about that topic… when I write about guys I will write about guys…
Asteyayet:
Just to pacify your EQUALITY in all things mentality – there is a pic of a boxer in the beginning of the article. Also he called the guys names (“short borcham“) if that makes you happy. Seriously though, the S word can be applied to a man as well but thats is besides the point. I think what the article is trying to say is we need not “exaggerating the S problem as extraordinary when it is an ordinary one”.
Furthermore, the problem is 99% related to women. I’m sure there are working man but very negligible compared to the women. Don’t forget this is a blog not a NY Times article so journalism rules don’t apply so STOP nitpicking!
Thank you so much uberman… hope you say around because god know the ladies like nitpicking anything I say about woman…
please refer to post #7 . I think it says it all .
yes it is a blog . that is why we all put out perspectives.
Nolawi,
Is it really affection and money that are interchangebable in the world or sex and money? …Where does the affection fit into a business like exchange of commodities?. I read your article with an open mind, but I feel the general tone is mysogynistic and lacks sympathy for the real victims S’s…..
Your article mixes up groups of women who may have different reasons to become sexual commodities of men who are ready to buy human sexual contact. There are women who become S’s because they have no money no education, no parents and no where to go. They do it out of despair and mostly they are in despair
Do you actually think these girls and women have chosen to become S?…
Then there are Gold diggers of various degrees…to some it is traditional as in marriages where social climbing is actively encouraged by both men and women, parents, families and a groom must have this materially and that educationally to be eligible….and isnt that accepted in every society in the world modern or traditional in some context?…..
Then the other modern gold diggers who either sleep with men or marry them for money….
How can all these women motivations be all the same?…..and whatever relationships they are in you can hardly describe them as equal in status in that relationship or get the respect they would have gotten had they not come with a price tag…..
Asteyayet:
You def have the right to put forth your perspectives or asteyayet. Never implied you should not. But Can you do so w/o nitpicking? Then again you are a woman so everything you guys say we seem to consider nitpicking. I stand corrected… Yiq’rta!
As for the *sniffing the air*, I’ll pass. Even w/ the clean underwears hangin’ – don’t forget who wore them: the borcham melata full of $20 wads & the S w/ the Naomi Cambell legs. (I crack myself up sometimes.)
Winta:
Possibly but if the choice was that easy why do so many women fall trap to this supossed “easy” money? Do you think its that easy to sleep w/ that gimat’am, ye’ Johnny Walker breath bortcham man? I don’t think so. As for morality, it takes a back seat to reality when her baby cries for milk & there is none to be had. (There was a cool a$$ song about this but just can’t remember the name.)
. – Thomas Moore
I cannot justify it but it surely not an EASY-LIFESTYLE choice as you put it. Anyhow, are we really talking about morality here or is this just about US dis-approving the transaction, uncomfortable w/ two people’s choices?
As for consent: I assure you the two culprits in this “play” know EXACTLY what they are getting into. There is a price for each act: $2 for ne’ka ne’ka in kasanchise & $100 for a hand job @ Gaslight. Not sure BJ is available in Addis… he he….
Rodman: No I’m saying $$ & fame bought him VOTES. Rather it gave him legitimate status i.e. ACCEPTANCE. No one was paid to vote for him. How do you account for Mr. Alhamudi – current Ethiopia’s sexiest man alive?
or… it could be Tamrat the cashier who was looking for his biggest break to hit the jackpot and the Alem the hard working Ethiopian , a Pharmacist women who after many years of wearing Target and Ross underwear can now afford to buy the best lingerie ….
Asteyayet:
Hey I love Ross underwear. They are easy to take off. Not too complicated as Vicki’s & most women don’t care if you rip off a Ross but mess /w the $90 Vicki’s – you are not gettin’ none & may have to cruse down cher-cher gondana for that S. You know what I mean?
ok , I give up . you are too much …you are way too funny!
Asteyayet:
Woo whoo.. I WIN!!! Wow.. Is the WHITE undie flag waving it’s bloody color all over Bernos, torn and worn out by my arguments? Eshi yibkaN. Truce is cool…
BTW may I ask if it was a Ross or a Vicki?
cant even afford the Ross undie , its a Wal-Mart one moi is miskin
Just as an advice , please be sure to wear some Zinab Libse when you go cruising down chercher godana .
Asteyayet:
Not that you will know but just as an FYI – “ye’amora gib’gib”, “ye’fikir siga gi’nignunet”, “ye’sinkurt” all a’le’Zinab Libse costs extra. As a poor student can’t afford it & the dollar declining exchange rate is not helping the cause either. I do appreciate the advice though…
I enjoyed the article. I went back home a couples years ago myself and witnessed what you guys are talking about. And i kinda of agree with all that was said. Although i do think the issue is a deeper one than what we have touched on. I think the women that resort to that sort of life style have very few options. Gen in the same right i think a lot of them believe all they have to offer is there melk which i find more disturbing which is a reflection of what is valued. the women back home that come from families that are well off are more focused on clothes, their hair all in the name of “beauty”. Very few of them have conviction to things going on around them. In the same right the men are focused on getting the best looking girl, nice cars etc. I think we have our priorities a little mixed up in the name of being hip to the western life style. But being an “S” has been part of human culture since biblical times. i don’t think its going anywhere anytime soon. Being an “S” male or female doesn’t make them less but they are so much more and they have so much more to offer. That is what is sad about the situation. If some into someone because of material value then they are in for a rude awakening because material sh*t is just that sh*t. Thats why a lot of rich ppl are on anti depressants. Self reflection is not a luxury, we all do it. The only difference is that some ppl have the privillage to change their situation and others don’t.
[quote comment="95779"]Asteyayet:
Not that you will know but just as an FYI – “ye’amora gib’gib”, “ye’fikir siga gi’nignunet”, “ye’sinkurt” all a’le’Zinab Libse costs extra. As a poor student can’t afford it & the dollar declining exchange rate is not helping the cause either. I do appreciate the advice though…[/quote]
sorry to intrude into your conversations, but I found your comment so disturbing. How much more can the poor girl charge that will make her immune to HIV infection????
Aisha:
I don’t know you will have to ask the “S” her going rate. I’m just saying it costs extra. At any rate, lighten up girl – it was a joke!
BTW the implication is, I’ve HIV? What about her giving it to me? So as you can see it’s a choice both parties make. The risk has blades that cuts on both sides. Besides, don’t you know EVERYTHING has a price even life. Young “Heroes” are dying in Iraq for Pell grants about 25Gs, Latinos brave the Arizona desert to get a piece of the American pie (dying by the loads), poor African men work the dangerous Diamond minds just to get a few coins to survive the day. So don’t give me this moral high-ground BS, just because you won’t pay the price. Many more desperate people do everyday.
[quote comment="95156"]Funny thing happened tonight. I was at a birthday party bartending with a friend. Reasonably good looking guy comes over and requests a drink while reaching for his pocket and taking out a seriously HUGE wad of cash rolled in a rubber band. Friend tells him it’s not a cash bar and he does not have to pay. He says “i know, it’s for you,” and throws a $10 bill on the table and leaves with his drink. Few minutes later, dude is back for another drink and reaches again for the roll….told by another person, he does not need to pay…but he mashkenters a $20 and takes his drink. Third time, homeboy is asking me for a beer and unrolling his dough in the similar fashion and i snap sweetly “You don’t need to leave any money!!! Nope, gets his drink and throws another $20. At this point i want to say “ef you” but hey it ain’t my party and i’m not gonna be stirring up no shit.
Anyways, first of all walking around with that much cash is highly questionable. Secondly, all you men out there who think it’s impressive, guess what IT’s NOT. You just end up looking like an idiot – which he did!!! Seriously, if the education you’re getting on how to get a girl is from watching the latest hip hop videos then nebsoch, your frontal lobe needs some slapping cuz it ain’t doing what it’s supposed to!!
Yemiyasazinew, he was a good looking fella…perhaps if he used his mouth to talk instead of his money, he wouldn’t have ended up being such a cliché.[/quote]
afe gumid mid yebelelesh..masinkomelody…lol…just seeing a fugly rapper get a cute ‘shawty’ because he tells her he got money in a bank…does not mean you have to do that too..sometimes i just feel embarrassed for them seeing those idiot brothers…and i can say that 75% women dig a man with confidence…so get your confidence on!
My dear UberMan, no need to ask me for forgiveness for not agreeing with my so called “biased” views. I’m not one to force propaganda down people’s throats. I’ll leave that job to the dictators.
But your moral Ferrari appears to have raced past the pit stop at which point you would have been able to take a breather and realize my comments to the article reflect my interpretation of it, given that it is slightly ambiguous. My understanding of Nolawi’s use of the ‘S’ word within the context of the article is more a reference to women who would date and marry any type of guy just because he has the money to provide for a flashy and extravagant lifestyle and they have the looks to match. (i.e. beautiful women who are not necessarily concerned about discovering their next meal).
As for playing Columbus and your restriction of it to the land of milk & honey, I don’t know about you but my expedition to Selfistan started before I crossed the ocean, as is the case for some young women in ET. I am all for empowerment, but I personally believe empowerment also finds its roots in the self and is not restricted to the resources available to one, thus my insistence in finding the self and understanding of one’s worth and abilities without equating self-worth to glitz and glamour. With the risk of sounding like a broken record, yes I still think that it is petty for men to equate sense of self with money and opportune women to equate sense of self with glamour, making the exchange petty in my eyes.:P
a recent book i read – and which i respect highly as it is a very sober analysis by a sociologist who has been examining the interplay between money and morality for a couple of decades — has convinced me that we are all really sluts anyway. this is not the author’s conclusion at all but it is what i drew from it.
her argument casts the moralists’ position as stating that sex and money are so hostile to each other that they should never be mixed. things are too clear cut, and therefore if you don’t want to be polluted, don’t go near those sluts, they would say. the opposite camp argues that sex and money are so interrelated they are anything-but inhabiting separate spaces. if i have to spend money at all to be with another and sex happens to be on my mind, how can i ever be pure? get real they would tell the moralists, didn’t you have to spend money to win her over with your engagement ring, if nothing else? did she not consider your well-being when considering a future with you, or you her appeal’s tradeoff relative to your expected future earning power? to argue that money and sex should exist in different realms is hypocritical, they have been saying.
so this economic sociologist gets very clever to offer some clarity. both of you are fighting disingenuously, she tells the academic personas she carries this conversation with and who have written tons and tons of shit on this. instead, she claims if we honestly acknowledge that various kinds of relationships are different, and that money gets spent differently in different contexts with differing boundaries, and that intimacy really runs the gamut from wife-husband, friends-cum-benefits, therapist-patient, waitress-customer in that money is being exchanged for emotional availability all the time for intimacy, broadly speaking, and that since we are SO CAREFUL to always draw the boundaries between sex and money as they produce the meanings we want them to create for us, then the expectations to be accrued from these relationships, and the nature of relationships these transactions demarcate, we are purchasing (buying/having) intimacy all the time — are you my f-buddy (how much eventually?), are you my husband (how much?), are you my sex therapist (how much?), you are an eye-candy bartender (this is how much your cleavage and struts are worth to me) – ergo: interesting observations, no judgments on anyone, this is what i can objectively see from my ten years of research of tons of legal cases in the U.S. spanning times of slavery through today, so meticulously researched, and i know so hard and dry to read if you are looking for a quick-witted and sassy approach to this topic…….. — it really boils down to how people define their relationships to themselves and explaining the nature of these transactions and people’s understandings of them to each other and other parties… what may matter is the *meaning* people create for themselves through the courses of these varying relationships. we just watch and reflect. it’s what i do. i’m an academic. she says in one breath of the ergo.
and suddenly i telly her i love you, i really, really love you professor zelizer for showing me some truth, by way of good vibrations hoping they make it to you at princeton soon…
only to later get confused all over again when i come across reports of another cognitive science paper on how having sex regularly with a partner three times a week has been shown to have the annual value equivalence of $50,000 for both parties (perhaps imputed by aggregating the cost of the hourly slut with the regularity of the regular partner), it becomes obvious, as nolawi anecdotally shows, that the s* word just serves to mask anxieties and offer elaborate justifications for feeling superior and smug with little interrogation of what is really happening here. money/money/money sex/sex/sex — how are they related in my life, and am i okay with this for myself, and how shall i tweak it knowing what i now do in relation to where i am?
so i’m finally wondering whether the s word is really slut, or sex? they’re way too related. nolawi, you intentionally left it at s*, so i don’t mind your judgment here. i hate ambiguities if they have chance at resolution… i was not sure if you meant to hide the tension in there by omitting the reference altogether, or hope we would eventually keep stumbling upon it again and again…
perhaps, i say, if you had to also look at the S transaction as a long-term one, does the s the man offer in return become ‘security’ — when we speak of securities, don’t we really refer to money in some sense also… so is the woman consuming back the Security (short- or long-lived) for the S that she offers…. Does money collapse into security? Does the slut collapse into pure libidinal sex for the man? If so, are sex and security exchanged on equal terms in the very short-run (as when you are paying the prostitute on fixed, clearly demarcated terms) or through posturing as when you do over long-drawn relationships that seem impossible to place the sex=money value on, but which seem to exist on many levels?
In the end, with S, are we all somehow just looking for security anyway in the best way they fit our circumstance? if for the woman the S is more a money factor, then is the sex for the man to keep up a Status factor? So he can build on his status reserve, to produce more Security for her. Is this some way of maintaing social status for both? Do the S (sex) and S (security) then exist to reinforce one’s social status? Then if i am a borcham melaTa, it may be worth paying for this if this is how i understand keeping my world together.
Hmmmm.. The S word. it seems so encompassing.
May the S be with you (i mean spirit myself), but whatever S it is, may the S be with you. Whatever is the S for you, i hope it’s the good Shit.
Mine as well. Hence my suggestion that if we are going to cast the stone why aim the balchut in one direction only…after all two business partners are in transaction…if she a hoe for giving it for money then he too is one for obtaining it that way. Zat iz all we sayin ober here in Fair Town
As for those who have to resort to such commodity under the presumed penalty code of ‘survival of the fittest’…well we’ll just leave that debate for another article that tackles it since I don’t think such was the intent of this article.
Would it then be a fair conclusion to draw that we all are really prostitutes of one form or another and our pimp is big Benjamin Franklin and his master is Vanity &/or Survival (you can fit somewhere in b/n that all the variants like ambition, goal, determination, desire, need, want, necessity etc). Fair, accurate, no??? This of course assumes that any relation to the word ‘price’ is green. But as life would have it there are costs (prices) at which something is obtained where green becomes a dull color in grand scheme of things. Oh I better stop my pea head is hurtin.
Suffice to say Mother Theresa is rolling in her grave in dismay… some say there are always exceptions to the rules…
Eloquent M’lady. Granted an argument can be had saying a growling stomach does not leave room for the luxury of self discovery and self empowerment…and again a counter argument can be made that many have persevered in spite of it and have gone to be and do great things. I always find it interesting though that if you have a different opinion, attitude etc that does not fit into the ‘cultural norms’ then it is because you caught the ‘bug’ of the western world or because you are comforted by the luxury it offers that you can sit in a pedestal looking down, or u’re ‘Americanized’(which really translates to you are out of touch with reality and are self-righteous and self absorbed)…so on and so forth.
It is almost saying that we’ve had lobotomy of sort until we crossed the ocean and are now awakened anew with all these delusion of grandeur…really people are we not selling our selves short? Besides let us say for agreement sake such is the case… that the U.S. has ‘enlightend’ us…what so bloody wrong with wanting to think and be outside ‘THE BOX’???
All we have said being part of the reality,we forget those sick men who wants a wife as dominated as our grand mothers were and as productive as his friends girl friends. Cause we all know that it is out of question(or not easy) to find a women who can accepte to be slaped, well I know there are some women who still think that If her boy friend is abusive it is because of her.or it is not a big deal if he push and pull when he is angry,That is another topic violence and us or our culture.
Anyways I think we should also talk of those sick guys who go and get there victimes in Ethiopia.The poor girl who was so happy that God has heard her prayers finally finds her self with someone so diffrent from the one she said I do with, in a place where she knows nobody.Cause all is beautiful in the beggning,by the time she meets the real person and she understand what he wants from her it is too late.So it is not surprising if she EXPORTS her self the first chance she gets.
Yonathan;
the “s” word is not Sex nor slut, its the amharic slang word for prostitutes…
sorry for the ambiguity…
YekeyDama:
You say you live in “Fair Town” so let me hold you to that then. Hope you are up to the challenge?
So tell me which is the out-side-the-box thinking here?
Masinkomelody & You – Condemn all “S’es” saying it’s an easy life style choice that is morally wrong & demeaning to the women who partake in this act i.e she no self-worth.
Society - Women who trade their affections for $$ are somehow cheapening themselves & ruining their lives.
Me - Let both the John & the “S” make their own decisions. They both have a reason to resort to this act & it’s their prerogative to live as they wish.
Now can you be “Fair” or is this just another word you throw around like Fox’s “Fair & balanced”?
I think most would agree mine is the radical thought here. Mainstream thought on this subject is summed up by the penal code system.
Masinkomelody - How much did your father make in ET? What school did you go to? I bet it was privet. Talk to me when you grew up on $150 per month w/ a family of six to feed eating Shiro everyday. So the logistics is not the point here. The fact you had the resources available to you for the expedition was. I think while you were busy looking at me driving by on my moral Ferrari, you missed the point once again (just like the article’s intent). BTW for a self enlightened woman you sure seem consumed by $ & its symbolisms: “HUGE wad of cash rolled in a rubber band”, “Ferrari”…
One last observation:
News flash – this is not just a MEN issue. Women also “equate sense of self with money”. That’s why there are gold-diggers. Just thought you might want to be “fair” like your dear Siamese twin YekeyDama.
Thank you both for the Eloquently mis-guided & mis-interpreted discourse.
Weezing by on my moral Ferrari. GOD its nice to feel the breeze of vindication on my face.
ene milew, if a “beautiful” woman hooks up with with a “not-so-handsome” man does that mean that she is with him because he obviously has money? maybe he’s a nice guy. is it possible that women are attracted to successful men because they have something other than money to offer? i personally, sorry if it’s offensive, would not marry/hook up with a guy who is not successful in something or another. not because i’m thinking of the financial success that may come, but because i want to be with someone that i can learn/grow from. and this is regardless of how he looks. so maybe, just maybe, those beautiful women that hook up with the ‘borcham’ are doing the same thing.
and on a side note, i am personally disgusted by men who pay for sex more than the women who charge. the market would not exist if the demand wasn’t there. all those lonely men with absolutely no self-worth/confidence who pay thousands for a plane ticket to get laid? m’ts. m’ts indeed.
Itsyonathan:
Very thought provoking Qs. I really like you input on this topic. Now I’m compelled to read “The Purchase of Intimacy”.
Emebet:
Lyle Lovett & Julia Roberts. Both rich so must have been love. To refute your supply & demand theory, I offer: Hugh Grant, Eddie Murphy the list goes on. I hardly classify any of them “lonely men with absolutely no self-worth/confidence”. Just a thought.
Read this article this morning on USAToday: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2007-11-12-clubs-athletes-cover_N.htm?csp=34
All these millionaire elite athletes shelling 10Gs to get w/ a stripper (the American version of another “S” woman). WHY? They can get any woman out there. I think the answer is not as simple as the man being desperate & lonely. There is more to the equation than that.
I share your “let’s give them the benefit of the doubt” sentiment here…
But then again, I see some irony in your own statement.
My question to you is, how do you define success?
I think everything that has been discussed here is the REALITY and saying otherwise is being in complete denial. Here is my little theory that supports my assertion.
Women are not attracted to men! Unless he is horribly ugly or outrageously attractive, a man’s physical appearance is very inconsequential from a woman’s perspective. Women are attracted to status, money, how full a man’s life is, how many people want to be around him and how outgoing and aggressive he is. A woman’s attraction to a man is a function of her jealousy at the thought of another woman having that man. She doesn’t care who he actually is or exactly what he looks like physically, she only cares about the VALUE of the life he has constructed around himself.
But we, men, can easily fall in love with a woman for a million little things. Men can fall in love with how a woman looks physically, how she walks, how she moves her eyebrows, the way she moves her lips, the way she sits on a chair – Just simple visual things.
The sad truth is society plays a great role in shaping our mind and giving approval to these types of behaviors.
But just because it’s becoming somewhat a “norm”, I don’t think we should advocate it.
Uberman – money does not give you the feeling of self-worth/confidence. evident by Eddie Murphy and Hugh Grant. you can be a millionaire and still think of yourself not worthy of a good woman. and just because you have money it does not mean you can get any woman out there. that’s rubbish. you should change that to if you have money you may attract more women who love you for your money. if you’re an ass and your rich, you’re still an ass, but with money. nothing more.
Lyle and Julia – it must have been love because they were both rich. Firrfirrr. you’re funny. so let me see if i have this right,
ugly rich man + beautiful woman = she’s after the money
ugly rich woman + good-looking man = he’s after her money, death to follow-watch the headlines
good looking rich man + ugly woman = good cook/he’ll leave her soon
beautiful woman + ugly poor guy = guy must be good in bed
Emebet:
No, all I was saying is I would not classify any of them “lonely men with absolutely no self-worth/confidence”. Just seems hard for me to fathom famously rich & adorned by so many beautiful women I can only dream of having a wet dream about, be “lonely”. As far as having money I whish you were right but evidence points to the contrary. All these rich scums attract 90% of the women out there. Now they might not get the 10% of which you may belong but I think 90% is a large enough pool to “play” with. Don’t you? At any rate, lets not lose focus, why would a man married to Elizabeth Hurley & able to walk into any club in LA & have his pickin’ resort to a street walker (there goes that “S” word again)?
Can argue w/ those assessments there but the ugly woman could also be good in bed as side from the kitchen.
PS True you are still an “a$$” w/ money & the girl(s)….
Taking any part in this unholy and unhealthy equation (the john and the “s”) is disgusting, degrading and appalling. It doesn’t matter which way you slice it, wrong is wrong is wrong. Sex sells but so does crack cocaine, it doesn’t make it right!
I’m sure a certain percentage of these ladies (and I use this term very loosely) are in the corner, in the brothels or in Sheraton AA cause of their social and economical standings. They are financially destitute and this is their only “skill”. And granted I do feel sorry for this group. On the other hand, there are some “s” who do this solely for the glitz and glamour of material superiority, they even appear to be proud of themselves.
As for the men (and I also use this tem very loosely) who need to pay for what can be obtained for free, the term to use is pathetic losers. Any man who has to pay for sex is a waste of human sperm.
Ted – are you trying to upset me? is that what it is? how is it that men can love a woman for all the little things, but we love men for their status/finances? ere bemariam? you are not for real are you?
i can only speak to my reality and views. i refuse to make remarks that apply to all women/men because we are not all the same, i will leave such assumptions to you.
and, success to me is setting goals for yourself and achieving them, not how much money you have in the bank. there are a lot of rich people who are miserable and paying for sex (refer to Uberman comment #54)
Uberman – LOL! i couldn’t tell you why this famous folks pick up ‘yelelit wefoch’. i don’t get why a poor guy would do it either. it must be a sickness. paying someone for something you could probably get with a little patience and probably less money defies logic
Moi:
It’s never “free” girl… That dinner I had to pay for, the two hrs (2 wks for habeshas) mac just to get a kiss, flowers on your B-day, chocolate on V-day etc… time, money & effort. NOT FREE!
BTW “unholy“, “wrong” by whose eyes? Yours? Well you can have a say so on what you wanna do w/ & how you wanna “offer up” your punani but give the same rights to the “S”. She has the right to sell hers to a different market than yours. Interestingly both markets offer venues for “trade” in one form or another.
Emebet:
“…less money…” now that is a fair & honest statement. Most of the laddies here seem to want to deny certain facts. Thank you!
“…lot of rich people who are miserable and paying for sex…”
That may be true to some extent but some may just be busy or are quite happy w/ the arrangement. No ne’ti’rik, no expectations, no alimony etc…
uberman , ahunim aleh ?
dude , you dont have to pay .
But I guess you have the “s” mentality as you feel like you have to pay for your women .
That explains your whole argument and vent in here .oh well….
you dont have to pay really . Not for dinner , not for flowers , unless you want to.
Asteyayet:
Are you kiddin’ we (all men) pay for it in one form or the other & after you fall in love we try to recoop on our investiment – ROI.
BTW forget a B-day or anniversary & let see how many get some that night…
Asteyayet:
I’m not venting just discussing & offering up a different point of view. I’m actually asking Qs that everyone seems to overlook or doesn’t want to confront.
As far as paying, I wish I had the resources to pay. My poor student status doesn’t allow for that. Just burgers & the occasional kitfo. So for now I’m relegated w/ the hustler & flo’ grp. I talk BS for hrs & end on the cell & hope one of you fall for it.
So you remember birthdays and anniversaries to get some?
Well if you are in it to get some then that’s what you’ll get . some. and nothing more. There goes the”s” mentality in you again ….
Asteyayet:
There goes that “s” mentality on you too babe. The idea everything is about love to me is “s”tupid. wake up open your eyes. Sure can’t deny there is true love in this world but I’m under no such disillusion. Not everything is about love. For me after a long day at the library “some” is all I need. I don’t need the drama that comes w/ the 24-7 open leg ooops… door policy…
i smell smoke
Did I say anything about love? No . “fes yalebet zilay aychilim ” ale yagere sew .
dont contradict yourself degmo. you said you paid for it . That makes you part of the transaction ….
I smell it too dear …
Uberman
I like the ‘naive’ honesty about your S life .Gin don’t speak like you have figured it out all .People committ the biggest mistake when they do that .
Winta - Naive? Hardly.. All the laddies here are the naive ones thinking its not free…
Asteyayet - If not money then what? The implication is love… Not sure what else you had in mind. Correct me if I’m wrong here. PLZ! As for me being part of the transaction, I never denied it. I said we are all part of that transaction in ONE FORM OR ANOTHER & that includes all you women offering your “fair” opinions that condemns “S’es”. I like to see you all educated women go date a janitor… Don’t BS yourselves. At least I’m honest about how $ plays a part in my life.
PS Women solidarity – I love it. But try to be frank w/ yourselves ppl…
Come on Uberman, u know it is wrong by anyone’s standard. Would u be okay if ur mom, ur grandma, ur sis or ur daughter was in that line of work? Some things are just universally wrong, i.e. child sexual abuse. Let’s see u try to be Uber-liberal and defend that one.
As for all ur “time, money and effort” comment, if the goal of all that is to get in her pants, maybe in ur case, it might be cheaper and quicker to get an “s”.
For the record though, since u brought up my “punnani”, I will give u a quick tour of who I am. Back in the days when I was unmarried, I made sure that any meal a guy bought us, the next one would be on me. If he buys me some perfume for my birthday, I am getting him a gift with the same face value as the perfume come his birthday. That was actually one of my rules. Uberman my dearest, cause even in my younger days, I was wise enough to know that men like u might un-expectantly enter my World and think they are owed something for the kitfo we shared last night.
So this is an “s” world – everyone , all of us in this world . Interesting philosophy . ay unberbire …. you is funny.
I give gifts to show appreciation, to show caring , for a coworker , for my aunt and cousins – male friends , boyfriends ( that I dont necessarily love )….
so yeah – some of us give gifts without expecting some.
mekeraker tiwedaleh libel ? you are losing your focus here .
Moi:
Well that must have been one hell of a college life trying to calculate 50% on every dealings you had. Wow… Are you a CPA now? If not you should be… BTW that implies you dated each man even the occasional jerk like me at least twice or even number of dates. Interesting… As for the women in my life, I would not like it if they were in this line of business but I would not condemn them for it & say its an easy life style choice. That is my point.
Is marriage at 10 to a 40 yrs old abuse? Depend who you ask. The enlightened ones like you may say yes but the goat herder who saved up 20 goats to marry the child (notice the price) would disagree. Is eating Lacy gross? Again depends who you ask? A man in Vietnam would say no but enlightened gal such as yourself might disagree. So its all relative. That’s why I suggest we debate the topic w/o labeling people or throwing spears. Kinda like Itsyonathan. Is that too much to ask?
Tell me something how much did your wedding cost? Do you have kids? Did you take off to raise them while your husband worked? Or do you still keep a tally of each expenditure? Now that would be such a boring marriage.
Asteyayet:
Why misconstrued? Why splice up my re just to throw a spear? “Mekeraker“? “Losing focus“? All I asked was if not love then you tell me what you meant? I guess the stuff you do to “show appreciation, to show caring” is not love or nothing is expected from them, no friendship, no companionship, no love??? OK, If you say so…
On a side note, can you people argue a point w/o the petty comments? How did I lose focus? Is it the lack of English diction. Write in Amharic I’m versatile…
UB how about I challenge you to re-read my posts? My point is that two parties are involved in this exchange so why label the women an “S”, gold digger or whatever and demean her for the trade leaving out the stick that stirred the pot? You can say two wrongs don’t make one right and I would agree with that sentiment but it’s just not fair to dangle the women alone.
But that is not what is happening now is it? She is the one called Shermuta, galemota, gold digger, etc where as he is just a man who have the right price to buy his heart’s and loin’s desire. That is what I find unfair. If she a hoe for selling it then he a hoe for buying it. I think you can find a jest of that somewhere in my reply, no?
I must point out one thing though (regarding what seems to be the theme of your argument), I don’t know if it is in your attempt to be right or if you truly believe only yeterabut do that but it is rather naïve to bluntly claim that only those women/men who don’t have anything to eat or who have only shiro to eat ? are the only ones who trades with their body. Am just say’n.
YekeyDama:
Sure I don’t mind re-reading it if I missed something & I’d certainly apologize. I’m not above that but you still have not answered my Q? Which is the out-of-the-box thinking here? Or are you claiming solidarity & sticking w/ your sis’s “eloquent” post? Ha ha…
BTW do you also agree that you two were wrong in your assessment of the article’s intent in the use of the “S” word?
Uberman,
Funny enough I am a CPA LOL… Keeping a tally of the expenses in my previous relationships wasn’t that difficult. I was a College student and dated College students so there were not any constant extravagant & lavish gifts that I needed to match. The eating out, going out and presents here and there was all it was.
Is a 40 yr old marrying a 10 yr wrong? YES! Just because the goat herder disagrees doesn’t make the action right. For instance a murderer can defend his actions all day long, but it doesn’t change the fact that murder (a wrong action) has occurred.
Before I answer ur questions, let’s be clear that there is a difference between dating someone and marrying someone. When u r married, u r symbolically one entity, therefore all expenses incurred are shared fairly per the couple’s agreement. There is no tit for tat.
Our wedding cost was around $40K, I am currently pregnant (first child). I intend to take time off to have the child while my husband works, yes. It might be frowned upon to have the baby in my office. Until men can have babies and breastfeed these babies, women will need to take time off and accomplish that tiny little task called giving birth LOL.
Moi:
Ditto to you too – just b/c you disagree that does not make you right. The goat herder disagrees b/c of his beliefs just like you based your disagreement on your culture. Again its all relative. In your eyes its abuse, in his it’s not. The Aztecs use to sacrifice a virgin (i.e. murder). Considered an honor for her btw. Some culture like the Korowai from Papua Indonesia still engage in cannibalism. Anyhoo, I wish you luck w/ you new baby. Really mean that. Its’ a privilege to be a mom & have the opportunity to raise a child. The SECURITY of marrying the “right” man w/ the ability to provide def comes in play here but I won’t sower/diminish the idea of parenthood any further. I do really wish you all the best.
Yesterday someone showed the white panties flag today I’m waving the white boxer. I’m done… I fought them ALL as much as I could. Just too many bees in the hive. (I thought a hive only had one queen bee? Oh well… Thankfully the African killer bee’s venomous power has been greatly exaggerated.)
I will sign off w/: Now I ain’t sayin’ she a gold digger… But she ain’t messin’ wit no broke – nigga’!
PS CPA sh^t was funny as hell…
Uberman
Sounds that you haven’t read wht I have written before this
Winta:
Just when I though I was out, they pull me back in! (My fav movie quote.)
So you want a re as well? Are you talking about this?
I like the ‘naive’ honesty about your S life .Gin don’t speak like you have figured it out all .People committ the biggest mistake when they do that.
I read it & replied:
Winta - Naive? Hardly… All the laddies here are the naive ones thinking its not free…
Does this not suffice or did YOU not read my re? Are you implying I’ve figured it ALL out? Thanks for the vote of confidence but I never made any such proclamation. Do you think that’s why I ask all these Qs? On the contrary you seem to have “figured” my S life quite easily… Bravo!
[quote comment="94521"]
Toothpick said:
*sniffs the air*
oooh … is that the new scent? “Subtle Misogyny” from Aremene Exchange?
hm. ok. then.[/quote]
dontchaknow, its all the rage.
Uberman
Well ,you were so clear about Ur ‘S’ life that it was so hard not to figure it out …ha ha ha
Okey serious face again, No offence meant .Just looking through your responses ,You speak in such Authority .I don’t remember you asking question anywhere. Or may be except for that question about some body’s underwear and some body else’s wedding expenses .I just think its too dangerous to be so sure of things to this extent.
BTW ,I like that movie too .
Winta:
Clarity in one’s thought does not imply once has answers to EVERYTHING. As for the Qs, not my fault you have selective memory here. You seem to recall only the Qs that pertain to underwears & some minor exchanges that rose during the discussion. Or are you pouting I did include your undies in the banter?
Unlike you I don’t think its dangerous to be sure in one’s beliefs. Is it too dangerous to have total faith in GOD for example? To be so sure your child loves you unconditionally? I think not. You know what is dangerous? Blank statements w/o reason or explanation. I do not much care for them. You want to change my mind then say something meaningful or thought provoking.
I counted about 12 Qs aside from the inconsequential ones. You might want to go back & re-read.
Its dangerous to have that line of thinking beacuse it rules out all other possiblities .And there is no one in the world (sadly ,not even you ) who have figured it out all. So wake up and smell the coffee .There are other options to everything .Don’t think your child loves you unconditionaly or don’t forget there are other explanations to existance besides God .That was my whole point .
Eshi Moving on, I tried to look in to your responses and see if I missed out questions .Here is wht I came up with .First of ,all these questions were answered by, none other than, uberman on the spot so they don’t count as far as I am concerned ..Here we go
focus“?
diction abak yitfa !
anyway what I am trying to say is you concluded that , its not only women who are “s”‘s because according to your below statment – everyone expects some kind of return – thus being part of the transaction . THEREFORE men and women are “s” and are equaly responsible . Am not sure if that is a correct conclusion from your end but at least its fair . you lost right there my dear .
UB my apology…your question got drowned amidst the rest of the inka-inki…
The ‘thinking outside of the box’ remark was made in reference to M’Lady’s stance reflected in the following block quote:
I dare to say once again eloquent! She was rebutting your implication that had we not come to the westernized world and “seen the light” by way of the resources available (not to mention good ole Oprah) then we wouldn’t be even having this dialogue because back where we come from we are far behind from such endeavors.
I don’t need to show her solidarity as her statement can stand alone just fine, I just happen to agree with her hence my reply as addressed in the last paragraph of my previous post. I hope that makes it clear.
I could very well be wrong and for a reason…it’s ambiguous. Setegna adari, S’s, prostitutes are those whose only source of income/injera is by way of body-sex-money trade. In reading the article there are references made about women who come to America by way of marriage (it is suggested in this very article marrying a man with a ‘green card’ both figuratively and metaphorically), women who are with men that are ‘successful’ and women who are with a ‘lesser’man (as suggested not financially but look wise, age wise or whatever) minamin… all of these not only intertwined but leading almost up to the labeling word of “S”. I will quote some of these remarks not for the sake of “nit-picking” as you would like to dub it as but merely to show how vaguely the subject is articulated (at least from my understanding/or the lack there of) of the article both in intent and the very word “S”.
Are we talking about “[S’s]…professional woman; woman you can obtain for money” here or generally women who happen to come to the U.S. by way of marrying someone who can “import” them to ‘the land of milk and honey’? Or has the slang gone universal?
And then you will read in a paragraph right after this statement…
So are all women who are with ‘successful’ men (financially speaking I guess in this case) inherently “S’s”? or is it only in reference to those who charges per pop??? It is all jumbled up making the intent not only unclear but rather contradictory.
The above quote is probably the polar on which the entire article and its intent supported on (and perhaps what you are banking on as being clear). The problem is most of what precede it is unclear making the tie noose loose. Exaggerating what problem? Prostitution? Or women ‘in pursuit’ of successful men or men ‘in pursuit’ having more money in order to “obtain” women who would other wise be “unattainable”?
Is this an advocacy for on the down low, behind closed door prostitution? (I say so only because again the usage of the word “S” as I know it is often used in reference to those whose livelihood is dependant upon such trade) or is he trying to say women are being labled as “S’s” because yetedar ena yenuro gebena is being told (perhaps accurately or perhaps misconstrued)in the open when things don’t pan out hence this lending hand to the overgeneralization of women and over usage of the slang?
You see what I mean, its ambiguity lends it self to a wide range of interpretations…perhaps he is unclear with the slang himself, I don’t know. I am not trying to be difficult, am just being honest with my understanding (or perhaps the lack there of).
Any who, my only focus to start with was if we calling the women an “S” for giving her body in exchange of raw money then he is an “S” for taking it in such manner, that had been my mantra. That was all…I only focused on that because it was evident that the spot light was shined on the women in this equation. Some may say no matter how you slice it but at least the butchering can start on a commonly & dually occupied ground and one can mesal his/her bilas accordingly.
BTW are you among the men who ‘want to be successful just so that they can get more or better woman‘? You know I had to nudge ya a lil after all this inka selantiya
Asteyayet:
Wo’y gud… This is the best you can come back with? Ye’ arogit sidi’b? In the absence of a well articulated rebuke, you resort to name-calling? Only shows you have nothing of value to add to the discussion. So sad!
BTW – Pretending to answer the question but changing the subject w/ spliced up quotes only denigrates the nature of the debate. But then again you have shown, by your name-calling, you are not worthy of engaging @ any level on any topic.
“Wise men argue causes, and fools decide them.” Thanks for decided I lost & you won.
Signing Off – I will not waste my time w/ your pre-schoolers…
YekeyDama:
Fair enough! As far as your last “nudge” – well deserved, I say. When you explain your point like that I’ve no problem w/ a ‘lil poke here & there. Makes the debate lively I think. Actually shows WIT unlike some morons here… But I’m tired need to get some ZZZZZs so I’ll pass on the rebuttal, besides we have beaten the topic as well as each other to a pulp (Seems like I tool all the women ET has to offer on this).
emebet:
Upset you? You must be kidding, right? That is not my intention at all, yeEne konjo. My point is the society that we live in gives approval to certain types of behaviors as those attributes are exercised by most people. But, then again, that doesn’t mean that “those behaviors” are right, nor you and I should behave that way.
I agree w/you on this point, tho…
I’m not saying “all men” use money as a bait to get “all women” as well. But, there are many women who date/marry/have sex with men for financial/material rewards. It’s all true, every guy knows it – but you’re not supposed to say this stuff! And imo, those men who pursue such women with nothing better to offer will end up w/shallow materialistic golddiggers. But, if you want a woman of substance and independence, you will get what you go after – deep substance.
[quote comment="96144"]ugly rich man + beautiful woman = she’s after the money
ugly rich woman + good-looking man = he’s after her money, death to follow-watch the headlines
good looking rich man + ugly woman = good cook/he’ll leave her soon
beautiful woman + ugly poor guy = guy must be good in bed[/quote]
hahahaaaaa emebet that is funny. i agree with that cliché… but it aint always true.
abo atakabid . I thought this was just a blog , not the NY times and what so .
Ted - ok, how come it’s the women who marry guys for their money the ones that are labeled? what about the men who marry women for their looks only? are they not just as shallow?
emebet:
Oh well, isn’t that one trait that a man looks for in a woman, though. I don’t know what planet you’re on, but, I mean If I be realistic, who wouldn’t want to be w/ a good looking woman
And again, that’s just one quality and it doesn’t mean that all men will fall for looks. One man’s meat is another man’s poison.
But, don’t underestimate a woman’s look, though. While beauty (or the lack of it) in a woman is in no way indicative of her intelligence, beautiful women are invariably very street-smart. As there are men who think that money will buy them everything, beautiful women know that they are good looking and they have gotten used to all kinds of men vying to get their attention early on in life. For the most part, they know men all too well than the average Abebech.
So, to answer your question, I’d say men who get married to a beautiful woman probably have a reason for doing so. Well, I haven’t walked in their shoes to tell you how it’s like, but I can assume that they either are doing it for publicity or may be for status (which is in almost all men). You know people will start saying how %$%^* did that *%^$&% manage to land such a gorgeous babe
And there are men who like that, you know. Not sure if it will last, though, but I’m sure it will be fun for a while…
Ted - ok, ok. i’ll be realistic and agree with you. yes, we are all initially attracted to a persons looks no matter what the “look” is(and to each his own). but how long will that last? i got asked out by this guy once that was a fiiiine brother, but when he opened his mouth to speak, god help me, i might as well have been talking to a brick. that was a big turn-off for me. so do men not feel the same way? what is the point of hanging out with someone that just looks good? are they allowed to speak? i would have to have a gag order. i would rather date a guy that looks like a ‘lonchina’ but keeps my mind occupied. but that’s just me.
^^^but there are also fineee a&& guys that are smoooth talkers….they are all talk but hey they could be exciting for a minute and before you know it you are their victim number ……. God knows, talking from experience that is. most good looking men also have the experinece of dealing with all kinds of women and are street smart. yeap those guys are my weakness LOL
emebet:
Actually, there are men who do feel that way. But, in general men are wired differently than women, eko. You know, they say, “Women need a reason to have sex. Men just need a place”. So, it really depends on what the guy is trying to get from you. Isn’t that the very reason you all make us go thru this rigorous screening process – just to even get a date?
Aisha, point taken!!
[quote comment="96742“Women need a reason to have sex. Men just need a place”. [/quote]
lol, that is soooo true. but some women don’t need any reason to have sex
who said woman need a reason to have sex? that is a general assumption. I think although I hate to use generality as a rebuttle
Winta wanted me to not be so sure about things & ask Qs so here it is:
Why are we so afraid of these women we call “S’es”? Who stigmatizes them more? Men or woman? I think, if you lined up 10 men & 10 woman in front of one “S” – I bet 100% of the women would condemn her. The men? Well, thats a bit tricky. Initially 50% may condemn her in public but 2-3 of them will go meet her behind the ally when no one is looking. That makes 7 men that approve in my book. So when we make blank statements about “S’es” lets also examine who “hurls” more condemnation at them & why as well. Granted the men that put them down & secretly crave their services are hypocrites but the fact remains majority of the HATE comes from women – a variation of a black on black drive-by.
Now why is that? Could it be women are more threatened by these S’es? I venture to say – hell yeah! (Notice my apprehension here – ha ha…) After all what is more at risk here? That sacred institution – marriage. Who wants to be married? By far the majority are women. Who wants security? You guessed it – women (this could be as a result of the roles we have placed on gender). Who lives in constant fear of their mate leaving them for a younger babe after 20 years of “blissful matrimonEy”? You know who you are – stand up & be counted. Who gets bored easily w/ their respective mate? This is our turf – men do? What do we do when we get bored? Find ‘dem S’es – Sluts, She’les, etc…. So I submit to you all, if there is any “subtitle misogyny” going on here it’s being perpetrated by far by the “house” women on the field-workers”. Ouch, reality that must hurt!
Asteyayet: Pls refrain for replying. I want to share & debate opinions on a higher level not ye’mender sidi’b! Thanks inadvance for understanding.
Uberman,
U directed this question towards Winta but may I go ahead and indulge myself in you’alls conversation?
I sincerely doubt any woman here condemn “s” ism for she feels “threatened” by the ladies of the night. Au contraire, we, at least, I feel that an “s” completely overturns any advancement or female empowerment and gender equality, our mothers fought for. Throughout history, women have been the oppressed and sexually exploited gender, therefore the last thing we need is more gasoline in the flame of female mistreatment. And “s” doesn’t help our case, it is the oldest job in the World, it is time to let it go and get another gig.
As for the women fearing that their husbands leave them for a younger girl, that scenario is on its death bed. Older women are stepping out with their younger men and the World is changing for the better. Now, if only we could get rid of gold diggers and “s”, we might rule the World LOL.
“uber”man,
We do like attention don’t we? Anyways, I personally don’t have any problems with “professional” women. If that is what they chose to do more power to them. They have the right to do what they want with their bodies. But for those in Ethiopia it is absence of choice that forces most into the profession. So I feel sad for them for having no real choice.
As to your comment about us being replaced by a younger babe when we get old, that is no real loss – because that type of man is easily replaceable with $50 toy so don’t feel too bad for us, we come up way ahead in the end.
Moi:
Q is not directed at her. She was the catalyst that’s all. Just wanted to throw the ‘ol ball (or balls) out there.
See what comes back. Anyhoo, your argument has validity in so many levels. But you can’t tell me no woman bares these fears & threats I mentioned. (I thought we were being frank so lets call it like it is.) As far as S’es setting you back – that implies your fate & status in the world is tied to hers. I, on the other hand, like to think my life is in my own hands – under my control. Why would one lady selling her body affect you & don’t give me the “no man is an island shpeel”?
Now for the young konjits lurking around your Mr. Right of 20 yrs – that fear has nine lives so the news of its doom is greatly exaggerated. Besides, the number of older hags w/ a young man are few & far between. Society stands on the way of her choice. Practically a taboo but you are correct it’s changing.
PS They work days too (“ladies of the night”). ha ha…
Aphrodite:
Why make it personal? Can you not discuss w/o these idiotic comments or do you lack the words to express your thoughts w/o them? Kinda like a security blanket or are they meant to confuse? I made a comment so I need attention? Come on now. Be real.
Pls go back & read why I wrote. You practically repeated my earlier post.
Now as far as the loss, its the person who invested 20 yrs, is the one who loses (man or woman – just seems we do it a lot more ergo my fear statement). You w/ your dildo are irrelevant in this scenario.
Ubrman
Signor ,Gracias para esos questions .Okey here is wht I can speculate
In many societies(specially in ours) women are not encouraged to express their sexual desires .So what I am thinking is the idea of meeting an S exposes that feeling .You know the way you feel when you see a totaly naked person on the street .It some how has a reflex on you because it makes you self conscious .With women because they have the desire that they are not suppose to explore and feel ashamed of ,they tend to be negative .
About the men ,well ,the first thing that might come to their mind is hassleless sex .You know ,with out going through all the issue of conversing and dating and convincing .they can just have it easy and fast .This ,I think ,happen not because they are sex animnal by nature but because of their socialization .
Moving on ,I might not agree with what you said about women being threatned by S’s specificaly.First thing women are always threatned by other women not only s’s .Second thing they would feel relativly more comfortable with the S’s because the men are not involved emotionaly .I think .
[quote comment="97156"]Moi:
Q As far as S’es setting you back – that implies your fate & status in the world is tied to hers. “?
That’s a good point. Hmm…The best way to explain it is to compare being a woman to being a part of a minority race in the West. U just wish for the stereotype to subside.
BTW, Halle Berry and Demi Moore are hardly “older hags”.
PS They work days too (“ladies of the night”). ha ha…[/quote]
LOL U probably know more about their work schedule than I. So cool, I stand corrected. Ladies of the 24-7 it is then.
Moi:
Kinda like how I feel when LAPD stops my black a$$ b/c I’m driving a decent car on Melrose or how we ALL feel when the daily news puts up a suspect’s mugshot & it’s a black man. Hurricane Katrina anyone? Compare that to the SD fires… Def feeling you on that point.
Sched – Sad but true.
BTW – Demi what can I say about her. There is only one! But we are not talking Holywood here. These are the exception to ANY rule. We’e talking the masses.
Interesting…
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