How would you react if you discover that the juicy kurte sega you had for dinner last night was from a cloned cow? Well, if the idea of eating a cloned meat doesn’t quite sit well with you, on your next trip to a grocery store, you’d want to check the meat label and see if it’s from a cloned or natural cow. What if there is no label on it?
That is what the FDA is saying – don’t ask, don’t tell on cloned meats. The FDA announced last week that meat from cloned animals and their offspring is safe to eat as that from their counterparts bred the old-fashioned way. But here is the thing, the FDA won’t require such meat to be labeled or tracked.
Cloning indeed causes genetic alterations; the extraordinary rates of early and horrible deaths among cloned animals testify graphically to that. However, the FDA counters that a clone capable of reaching breeding maturity is safe and that genetic alterations caused during cloning aren’t passed to their offspring.
Surveys also show that “more than 60 percent of the U.S. population is uncomfortable with the idea of animal cloning for food and milk.” The single biggest reason people give is “religious and ethical,” with concerns about food safety coming in second.
By contrast, proponents say, Clones are not genetically engineered animals. They are simply twins, albeit born a generation apart.
I wouldn’t have a problem eating a cloned meat if I knew the cloning process was 100% perfect and the new animal was 100% identical to the original, but if that is the case then what is causing the unnaturally short lifespan and horrible deaths for cloned animals? – I will let FDA eat this first, wait for few years and then get back to me with the results… if whoever ate it is still around that is.
Published by January 23rd, 2008 in Current Issues and Food.
ITs the same cloned or not… it looks the same tastes the same
so eat it
The FDA approval is a reasonably good mechanism to prevent some obvious problems but I wouldn’t be surpised if two years from now they come back and ban it altogether…..
I really want to know who is behind the meat cloning industry. Why are they pushing for it? The FDA doesn’t always make decision on what’s best for people.
What worries me is that the FDA started looking at cloned meat over the last 6 years. Would that be enough time to find out about long term side effect of eating cloned meat?
We are capable of surviving without eating meat. Why are we eating so much meat to the point where they have to clone animals to keep the meat supply. I say no to cloned meat!
Because they don’t have the patience to wait for the animals to be borne and grow naturally as that will create delay in the cash flow….. and their profit margin with cloned animals will definitely be bigger….
I am sick and tired of the corporate world ruling everything….
I am telling you they will not stop until we grow horns on our bodies. When I look at the number of kids that have Autism and all other kind of disabilities it makes me wonder whether or not our food supply has brought us all these ills.
Even the so called natural meat is not really natural.
I agree with Dinich. I think the FDA is just favoring the meat cloning industry. Why is cloned meat approved ONLY in the US for consumption?. Doesn’t that raise a red flag by itself?
Here is the FDA official website regarding meat cloning
http://www.fda.gov/cvm/cloning.htm
I just read this on the Exective Summary of the risk assesment section of the link KT provided above:
What I hate about scientists is that to them everything is about test results, samples, methods, outcomes etc…regardless of common sense and they know how to avoid responsibilities by saying things like …there is no current evidence…to me that implies there is a possible risk that they haven’t been able to verify…
As far I as I am concerned common sense rules. My common sense says no to cloned meat at least for another ten years….
These issues are always about consumers Vs corporations. And I would like to see a system, be it FDA, Obama, SEC, or whoever that always gives the consumer the benefit of the doubt even when there is the slightest amount of doubt…
You dont need a label, I would think price would differentiate the two. If you are buying cheap meat, its cloned.
And this isn’t between cloned versus organic. Organic my ass. Organic does come with a lable. Its all the other stuff you have been eaten and will continue to eat that does not have a lable because the only difference is between old garbage and new garbage. If you eat pork, read up on the U.S. pork industry, you had stop eating pork. Chicken too, dont trust that shit, they grow it in a test tube. But it tastes good and the world population demand is growing insatiable.
I somehow always thought cloned cows were not to be eaten at least for the next ten years.. are cloned cows going to be pumped full of hormones and other stuff… Say no to cloned cows meat eat fish instead, that is until dead fish is caught from the ocean and cloned too. Then full vegeterianism beckons…
C-Would you mind doing an article about the housing bubble. I think a lot of habesha had bought into the buy-a-house-you-can’t-offered. I wonder how they are couping and plan to…
Trying to figure out how to get a sister out of the ARM mess.
Okie, let’s try to keep our arguments and feelings structured. WHY are you uncomfortable with eating cloned meat? If you say “religious or ethical” reasons, in my opinion, your argument is so weak and illogical that i probably won’t address it. If you want to argue it is “unnatural” and God never intended for it, well . . . lots of things we have now that we take for granted can be seen as “unnatural”. Not many women these days give a “natural birth” do they? Everytype of technology we have has been challenged as being “unnatural”. And “unnatural” to what, by the way? Do we have a baseline of what is natural to begin with? . . .anyways, i can go on about that. However, if you argument is “I don’t think it is safe (yet)”, then I would probably give you more credit but will still say “why aren’t you questioning every other decision the FDA makes”. I’m just tryin to stir up your thoughts and really examine why you feel the way you do.
-the Debater
Sorry everyone for the momentary diversion of the topic…
Dear Anon…
I live outside the US even though the housing scandal has had an impact in Europe too and other consequences like a bank called Northern Rocks I dont know if you have heard of them, it is all interlinked. I could give a European perspective of what I read of the US housing scandal but before that where I live we are now told that unless we say so specifically and formally before we die the State will take our organs and use it for transplant purposes assuming we have given consent when we have not said anything either way. This is because of shortage of transplant donors
I am normally in favour of organ donation , but many are not on religious grounds or other beleifs and I think their wishes should be respected and that the central question about organ donation should always primarily be about consent either by the organ donor or their family. Once consent is removed from soething as fundemental as your own dead body it is not good. So, I am researching and writing about that topic so bear with me for a little while….
Sorry everyone
Yes, The Debater, I have no doubt that 10 other people are replying at the same time I am typing this…you have succedded is stirring thoughts…
Why do we have to dismiss religious and ethical reasons as unacceptable. If 60% of Americans said they don’t want, at least freedom of choice should prevail. Americans should decide what America eats. My question to FDA is, what is the problem with just labeling it cloned if you truly believe it is safe to eat so that those who want to avoid it can avoid it? FDA is supposed to be the poeple’s organization and as such should respect choice.
Are they concerned about sales? Doesn’t this open the door for greedy retailers to sell cloned meat at higher price ands swear that it is not cloned? So many issues and so many question that could have simply been answered by labeling it…
Good points debater
First of all, why do we have to eat cloned meat? Is there a shortage of meat supply? According to the CLONING INDUSTRY, there is a shortage. Right now, there is no supply from cloned meat and we are doing just fine. I would be more open to cloned meat if there is a shortage of meat supply. If the idea is to provide consumers with cheaper meat price, then why not label clone meat and uncloned meat? As consumers, don’t we have a right to know what we are eat? What’s with the don’t ask, don’t tell policy?
There is a high rate of death in cloned animals at early stage. Then we get to eat the ones that survived. Are they really healthy? I highly doubt it.
The FDA doesn’t always make a decision to the best interest of people. It’s more of a political issue than consumer’s safety. How many items do get recalled from store shelf? FDA isn’t definitely on people’s side.
Is 6 years enough to evaluate long term effects of eating cloned meat? They need to spend more time evaluating the risks involved with eating cloned meat. Right now, “there is no current evidence that food products derived from adult somatic cell clones or their progeny present a food safety concern.” Just because there is no evidence, is it okay to put cloned meat out in market?
Why is the US in the rush to put cloned meat in the market? Why aren’t other countries eating cloned meat?
k, i will address each one of you seperatly:
Dinich: Religious and ethical reasons are unacceptable because of the reasons I said above. Every single new technology has been challenged by most people initially as being unnatural, unreligious, and unethical. And mind you, athough #s mean power in a democratic vote, the number of ppl have feel one way or another means very little when it comes to the advancment of science and technology. if it was up to the majority of the ppl at the time, there would still be slavery in the country. I can site numerous examples to disporve you if waht you are trying to say is “most ppl feel this way therefore it is right”. majority of people simply do not like change and tehy will fight it. But it does not make it right. It is sometimes up to the minority of ppl to push the majority to accept change, and most times, the majority will soon accept the change and move on. Mind you, my argument is not that we should or should not eat cloned meat. I am asking you if your reasoning makes sense (even to you – if you are willing to question yourself).
Look, let’s be real – it is ALL IN YOUR HEAD. for you all you, you could have been eating cloned meat all along, and you were fine with it.
I see your point, The Debater. I think the difference between your reasoning and mine is (I am a Christian by the way) I would like to see a society that allows me to think my own away and live my life my own way and my understanding is you would like to see a society where science reigns and rules. In other words I want FDA to tell me what kind of meat it is.
Basically, what I am saying is let’s give up the who-is-wrong-or-right argument and give everybody a space.
KT, i will address your argumetns now.
basically your rethorically asked “is there a shortage of meat?” but really seems like you had answered yourself by saying “no!”. Well, you are wrong. There actually IS a shortage of meat. I’ve seen data that says Humans waste 7 poounds of grain feeding a cow to get 1 pound of meat back from the cow. That is a loss. So, you can’t assume that there is no problem as far as shortage of meat.
you said “There is a high rate of death in cloned animals at early stage. Then we get to eat the ones that survived. Are they really healthy? I highly doubt it. ”
I’ll just say . . . survival of the fittest. The fact that the cows survived their early stages means that they are fine.
Also, we can argue that the cows that get cloned obviously are of a superior genetics (hence why they are being cloned,right?) therefore they may infact be BETTER than other “ol fashined natural cows” whoes genetic makeup is in question!
Why is the US in a rush than other countries?? – hmm, one word answer – innovation!??!? and that is not a bad thing.
Look, it is in no ones best interst to have cloned meat if it is unhealthy. why would the company spend millions of dollars if they didn’t have a plan to “provide superior product”? again, my point is . . . try to put your irrational feelings aside and examine why you feel the way you do. could it simply be “resistance to change”?? fear of the unknown?!? it is natural for the majority of ppl to RESIST to change, but it is up to a few innovators and free thinkers to guide the rest to the light . . .or else we would still be in a cave.
Dinich, it is not so much that i WANT a society where science reigss rule . . . I think we DO live in a society where science reigns rule. Look, you operate a car, to go from egypt to isreal, ppl either fly or take a boat, hardly anyone parts the red sea. You use a computer, internet, and most importantly, when you get sick . . . you go to a doctor to get well, don’t the church to see a priest, right?
You said you are a chirstian, and that is fine. I am not against religion or consider myself an athiest (as you probably may have been wondering) – I’m just saying, don’t mix religion and science. Religion (“spiritualty”, to be exact) and tehnlogical advances don’t have to be against one another – they can and should live in harmony. as long as ppl willing to move with the times. besies, i can even give you a low blow and ask you “where does the bible say you can’t clone cows”?
My main issue here is….is it healthy to eat cloned meat?
The meat industry is going to spend billions of dollars getting this cloning technology to work. That’s good. I have no problem with that. But is it healthy to eat cloned meat at the end of the day? FDA is the only federal agency to check for the safety of the cloned meat. When the FDA works against the people interest and when the FDA is more influenced by these meat industry, it hard to put my faith in their work. Do you personally feel comfortable with a 6 years research? I don’t think that’s enough. I hope they will study cloned meat more. Then, they can put it out in market with label. As consumers we have a right to know what kind of meat we are buying. If people choose to eat cloned meat, then that’s their right. This isn’t about the fear of the unknown or anything or resist to change. It’s purely about safety. As a matter of fact, I don’t even eat meat. I could care less if they put cloned meat or even human meat out for sell.
Where did I say The Bible is against Cloning?
hi KT, FYI like you, I don’t eat meat either and so I really don’t care. But my point again is, why do you think cloned meat would NOT be safe. Can you step back and ask youself why your first instinct is to assume that clonned meat would NOT be safe? The FDA is saying it IS safe. Look, there is already crazy hormones and pestisides, and fertilizers and all sorts of chemicals and unnatural igridients being put in our foods (in meat AND veggies, by the way). If a clonned cow (which simply means that it is genetically identical to another cow) lives its entire life in a “natural” enviroment eating natural grass, gets no hormones and other chemicals, what makes this cow more risky to eat than a cow that was not clonned by was born and raised in those disgusting “farms” eating crazy hormones that makes him grow 4 times faster so he can be slaughtered faster?
The Debater
Is it right to impose change on people without proper consultation with them especially when it is about what they are eating which might affect their health at a later date?…
Is both religious and ethical reasons are unnaceptable who is going to keep check and balances of the meat industry or any other industries?…Why can can both ethics and religious beleifs co-exist alongside science and progress?
Dinich, i’m sorry, I took it for granted that since you said religion can be used as an argument against cloned meat, I assumed you had an assumption that the bible was against clonning. If you don’t think the bible is NOT against clonning, than can you express why you feel havign a religious reason for not clonning cows comes into play?
Confused, my argument is baiscally challenging you WHY you beleive what you do, not not really saying if waht you beleive is right or wrong. It is okay to consult ppl, but again, it depends on the situation. Why can’t you clearly tell me first WHY you think clonned meat woudl be any worse for you than non-clonned meat? The FDA has said that it is SAFE. now the burden of proof is NOT on the FDA to prove that it is any different from non-clonned meat, but it is up to whoever thinks unclonned meat is NOT as safe to prove that it is indeed NOT safe.
You asked “Is both religious and ethical reasons are unnaceptable who is going to keep check and balances of the meat industry or any other industries?…”
hmmm – designated public services? the public at large? anyone! (maybe except the priests ; ) i kid, i kid)
Any party can voice their opinion and their ethical concerns, just be prepared to defend it when your ethical conerns are being challenged. And that is all i am doing, challenging what you think without a question is “unethical”. I am saying “what is so unethical about cloning a cow”
“Why can can both ethics and religious beleifs co-exist alongside science and progress?”
-they should exist. i am all for ethics and religious belieifts to exist along side science and progress. the thing is, ethics and religious beliefs should be dynamic and move wiht the times. To keep ethics and religious view to be side by side with science and progress . . .ethics and religios beliefs need to KEEP UP with science and progess. Not the other way around, science and progress should NOT remain stagnant not to leave ethical and religious views that were written thousands of yrs ago. Get my point?
If I could throw in my two cents here. I think the main question is why the FDA is not allowing or better yet forcing these meat companies to indicate whether or not the meat is cloned. It sounds like someone very influential from the meat industry got “in-touch” with an equally influential person at the FDA.
I like what you said debater, regarding the statement of how after a new technology emerges some people are uncomfortable by it but after a generation or two it becomes accepted. But I believe, like many other technological advancements in the past, this will eventually have a double edged sword. For example, I’m sure in the late 1800s there were many people who were unsure of the combustible engine, but eventually most people around the world accepted it. This has on the one hand made travelling expedient, efficient, and affordable but the other side of that is the other crisis that this technology has brought, mainly global warming. Now, at that time there was no science or any governing body that could’ve foreseen this. The same could be said with the development of nuclear power, on the one hand it has the potential to light up and bring energy to millions but as we all know, it has the potential to destroy all of man kind a hundred times over. Now, this is not an outcry for global warming or nuclear proliferation. But cloning is an emerging technology and 6 years of testing by the FDA doesn’t necessarily make it safe. How can we judge it’s effect 10, 20, or 50 years down the line. It might be proven safe for this timespan but beyond that we can never know and by the time we do know, it might be too late. So basically, they need to put the labeling on there and we eat it at our own risk.
What’s the need in the first place? Are we having a meat deficit? Please, Nolawi or Confused, do some research for us, if the vegans #s are decreasing or if there’s a behaviour changes :=) In my opinion, cloning meat would be favourable instead of cow so, the cows life will be spared. Not nice, ehhh?
traditionally FDA doesn’t have an agenda to betray the people
second please please people stop picking stupid nicknames and use your own name or a made up name… stop conforming your nicks to fit the agenda of your comments…
its annoying…
Dear Debater….
My argument isnt so much as to just oppose cloned cows, my view is there has not been enough research yet showing us that cloned anything is safe. I remember a cloned sheep named Dolly…died young with birth defects and all and was diseased to the hilt. She wasnt cloned for consumption but what is she was at the time?…this was less than ten years ago. Now I know sheep is sheep and cows are cows and that just one example isnt enough to base a conclusion, I know that but it doesnt give me confidence .And I think that the burden of proof is actually upon the FDA, if they are looking for the public’s confidence in cloned meat. I would like to see the language the FDA used and if there are any opt out….
Well there is Consumer groups and no doubts other pressure groups organisations will conduct their own research to protect their members and compare their findings to the FDA’s…
I didnt say it was unethical to clone a cow, I am not even agaisnt many unnatural things that science that brought us ,it was in reply to when you said ethics and religious beliefs were unnaceptable in the area of introducing new technology because people will oppose on the ground that it is unnatural, that was what prompted my reply, my view is lets see more reserch and an old cloned cow not for eating yet who was healthy throughout her life time….if we can have few of those before we start eating them that is fine by me…
We agree on this….
We will agree to disagree on this other one. Ethics are necessary in life in every sphere, especially in science. When science does away with ethics I dont think it is good science and asking for check and balnces of science isnt to make it stagnant. We watch and question our rules and hold them accountable we should so with scientist too. Do you get my point now?
Dear Grandma…
The vegans will increase in number I am joining them lol, thank God I have stopped eating any kind of cows when they started to get mad, and switched to fish I wont even trust the chicken, full of hormones and things, and it is black coffees for me from now on…I havent researched the US and it isnt vegans but vegeteranism has increased here and does so steadily every year, no one is sure of the reasons, sometimes it is newly discovered love for animals and not wanting to eat them anymore, other times it is for health reasons, but I will check on the vegans..those are a bit extreme and not all people who stop eating meat want to stop having a cheesecake or milk in their coffees, I am one of those…lol
[quote comment="119494"]What’s the need in the first place? Are we having a meat deficit? Please, Nolawi or Confused, do some research for us, if the vegans #s are decreasing or if there’s a behaviour changes :=) ?[/quote]
Grandma that is sweet, then will there be too many cows and the enviromentalist will have something to say about cows an the climate…:)…. Bye now…
Very Interesting topic.
I’m against cloned meat and to answer The debater’s question as to why:
-Religious: Really does not feel right to create/clone an animal (same goes for humans)…I believe that is God’s job and should be left at that….seriously where do we draw the line…next thing we know, humans will be cloned….not that the bible explicitly say that cloning is wrong but He’s the giver and taker of life.
-Scientific: There is absolutly no evidence that eating cloned meat is safe, there is no study of long term effect therefore feel very uncomfortable.
U said “The FDA has said that it is SAFE. now the burden of proof is NOT on the FDA to prove that it is any different from non-clonned meat, but it is up to whoever thinks unclonned meat is NOT as safe to prove “ ….I disagree, the FDA is there to prove whether any food/drug is safe for the public therefore in this case to prove that cloned meat is the same as “natural meat”….how is it that me as a consumer I can prove otherwise…I do not have the resources to make that kind of research and disprove The meat company or the FDA.
And the FDA is not always right (Vioxx…) and the people who work in the FDA could be the same people working for the meat company…now how Biased would their approval be..
Thank you Anonymous4Life and Confused, you made some good points and now the point of debate is getting clearer. Basically, the main concern you seem to have is safety and health issues, and not so much ethical/religious issues, right?
and i can dig that! I think those that were ready to entertain religious reasons may have gotten offended and dropped out ; ). hmmm, so 6 years does not make you comfortable enough NOT to distinguish between cloned and unclonned meat? I’ll give you that, that’s fair.
speaking of ethics on the other hand, if ppl are so concerned about ethics in the meat industry, how come it is okay to tolerate the sadistic way animals are currently treated (tortured, really) for no reason except for relieving the frustration ppl working in slaughter house seem to have. To me, that is unethical. Even silently ignoring those issues one can argue can be seen as unethical. I’m not going to go that far, but to some even economically supporing the meat industry (by consuming meat from animals that are tortured) can be seen as unethical. Now you allow this to happen yet you say that cloning cows is unethical?!?!
Annonymous4Life, i’ll address one of the main points you made. basically you are saying technology is good, but it often times comes at a cost, and you cited some examples. Well, true technology does come at a potential cost at times, BUT . . . that is just the way it is, rihgt? consider teh alternative! what should we do? don’t pursue technology cause it could have negative impact? I know that is not what you mean, but then I guess I am not sure what you mean. You admited that there was no way ppl knew in the 1800s about the impact on global warming, and there was no way they could have know. so really, it is pointless to talk about that cause there really is nothing we can draw from that. What we don’t know, we simply don’t know! Just like we they didn’t know the impact of the industrial revolution would have on the climate, I guarantee you there is soemtihng we all are doing and take for granted that probbaly has a huge negative impact on the world, somehow. and you know what, there is nothing you can do about it cause we simply are not capable of know what it is! but you know what, that should not stop innovation. Science and innovation may BREAK stuff, but you know what . . . it’s okay because it is going to be science and innovation that will MEND IT. Science and innovation goes back to the first stone the cave man used to hunt his prey.
My advice to those of you who question safety just give it a year or two and you’ll find out the truth from a law suit. You may see a headline “cloning meat made her/him look like a cow, or addicted to cloning meat” or something…Unfortuantely, the court is the place where they reveal the truth. Sad but, very true. And then as a courtsey, they’ll tell us how long they’ve been fooling us.
Don’t trust your government, don’t trust the agencies and of course, dont trust the corporates, they will feed you garbage just so they can increase their profit margin.
They had sell you your own shit if they could. This all isn’t about whats good for the consumer, its all about what’s good for the shareholders $$$$$.
Cloning a cow is still very expensive. It costs about $15,000-$20,000. It will be a while until we see cloned meat in the supermarket
Hmmm…It’s interesting to see the Vegetarians and Fruitarians dominate this discussion. I was hoping yeTere Sega ena kitfo fans will come out throw their two cents. But hey so long as it’s a discussion I’m all for it.
Anon:
Not sure if cloned meat will actually be cheaper than the natural one. I know it costs thousands of dollars to clone a steer, and it’s unlikely that we will see cloned meat in the grocery shelves anytime soon. But they are not going to butcher a $$$ cloned cow, instead they will use that for breeding and mostly it will be the meat and milk of the second and third generation offsprings that will enter the supply chain.
But then again, I don’t have any problem with them producing cloned meat. My concern is, if it’s going to end up in the grocery shelves, why don’t they label it and let the market decide, you know – of course unless the only motive behind this is “economics”.
The Debator:
You know, I must say that I like your points and you really do make sense. And I’m glad that you mentioned that you are not atheist. The discussion would probably have taken a different toll by now. Well your side of the argument might make sense to a certain extent, and the only reason I’d say that is because they have been artificially inseminating animals for over 700 years now, and a lot the meat that is sold today was actually produced through in-vitro fertilization and embryo transfer/splitting of some sort. Even most apples, bananas, grapes, peaches and potatoes are clones. We have been eating that for some time now. As they say in restaurants, “what the consumer doesn’t see, the chef gets away with”.
But then again, aren’t the FDA guys those geniuses behind all those kid-cold medicine fiasco that was going on? And are we going to trust that they are going to get it right this time with cloned animals?
Not sure if I will buy that argument 100%, though. I’d actually be interested to know who funded the research. I bet you the firms who are behind this are also board members at FDA. So, in a country where corporations run the government, I’d doubt it if you tell me that their primary motive is innovation.
Sara sara sara . . . need I answer you seriously? hmm,
before i answer you, i want to clear up something i said earlier that seems to may have come wrong. When I said the FDA has said it is safe, and it the burden is on whoever disagrees to prove it wrong, what i mean is . . . the FDA has already apparently done its research and has said it is SAFE. If you think the FDA is wrong,you will need to have some good arguments right? I am not saying you should start by proving why cloned meat is unsafe, I am saying, since the FDA has already done its research and concluded that it is SAFE, what more do you want? You wnat to challenge the FDA, that is a totally different argument.
To your other point:
“Religious: Really does not feel right to create/clone an animal (same goes for humans)…I believe that is God’s job and should be left at that….seriously where do we draw the line…next thing we know, humans will be cloned….not that the bible explicitly say that cloning is wrong but He’s the giver and taker of life.”
He is the giver and taker of life, right? Are you against genetic modification? Isn’t that unReligious? yet you probably do eat genetically modified food. Why do you pick and choose what is religiously acceptable and what is not? God is the giver of life, rihgt? but as you said, where do you draw the line? Are you against artificial insemination? couples who can’t have kids the traditional way use science in a creative way to get pregenant. All that is pushing the traditional view of God’s place as the giver of life, right? And who is to say God is not involved in the process of cloning? God does work and manifest in mysterious ways, maybe in the 21st century, he may feel like creating life by cloning. Why don’t you think of God’s place in the current meat industry? Animals (that are also God’s creation) are abused and tortured. In my eye, that is more “unGodly and unReligious” according to MY values.
“Scientific: There is absolutly no evidence that eating cloned meat is safe, there is no study of long term effect therefore feel very uncomfortable.”
Are you serious?? google the subject and you will see the FDA approved that it is safe. Damn’, but I guess you did not sign off on it, so who cares waht the FDA says, right?? Look, if you are going to have a scientific argument, say something better than “there is absolutly no evidence that eating cloned meat is safe”
nuff said!
Ted, and everone else for that matter . . . Money does drive the world, in case you don’t know. Money = resource. saving resource is our inherient nature (since the cave man days). Innovation and money making go hand in hand. that is the whole purpose of Patents, right? innovate, patent, and make money. Use the money you made to fund more reserach, so out of 100 resreach you fund, maybe 1 or 2 will make it big, etc. you know the cycle. Are the companies out there to make money?? of course! You guys didn’t know?? And all this talk about the evil corporate machine that is out there seperate from us regular poor folks is BS (atleast to a degree). You, me , they, we all are make up the corporate culture. we work for corporate companies, our salry comes from corporate profits, we excercise our power by the dollars we spend (don’t under estimate the power of the consumer, by the way.), basically the consumet plays one corporate company against another in terms of the competetiveness pressure we put on them to lower price and beat the competiton, cause what consumers care about is low price anyways, right? How many ppl truly are willing to pay more money for goods in light of ethical and religious reasons(and I don’t mean rich ppl who don’t feel the price difference). Really, the consumer only cares about saving $$ (and usualy not cause he doesn’t haven’t enough $$, but more likely so he/she can have more $$ left over to buy more junk he/she doesn’t need). Yap, the consumer is just as greddy! and guess what – the corporate machines only cares about making profit too (real ppl who also happen to be consumers run the corporate world too). Most of you probably own corporate stocks anyways. and if the stock of a company you own goes up cause it had invested in cloned meat, and cloned meat ends up making so much $$, are you going to hate the idea of cloned meat then? Ted, i like the saying “what the consumer doesn’t see, the chef gets away with” . . . but you know what, the question is, who really is the customer and who is the chef. i think if you look hard enough, you may begin to see they may be one and the same. Its just one disillusioned guy cookin in his kitchen pretending he is both the the chef and the guest. : )
[quote comment="119529"]Don’t trust your government, don’t trust the agencies and of course, dont trust the corporates, they will feed you garbage just so they can increase their profit margin.
They had sell you your own shit if they could. This all isn’t about whats good for the consumer, its all about what’s good for the shareholders $$$$$.[/quote]
I agree with you Anon. The FDA is a shill for big business; why else would they allow cloned meat to be sold unmarked. How is that protecting the public? The meat, milk etc… here is full of growth hormones and antibiotics and the FDA doesn’t require producers to label their food so people could make an informed decision whether or not to consume these products. The diabetes and obesity epidemic in America actually in a lot of other countries can probably be attributed to these “safe” food products that are approved by the FDA (like high fructose corn syrup). Wouldn’t it make sense to label the meat so it could be tracked and if there is some problem down the line? If it is as safe as they say it is they should be willing to label it as cloned.
I for one wouldn’t eat cloned meat because;
1. I object to it ethically. The success rate for cloning animals, I read somewhere, is between 0 to 20%. More than 80% of these clones are defective and I believe the other “safe” clones could probably have other defects that can manifest later (hence the need for labeling and tracking) and 20% success rate strikes me as terribly inefficient. The environmental impact of more cows whether natural or cloned is enormous. It is hypocritical of me since I eat meat, I seriously need to think about veganism but damn I just love lamb too much.
2. The eww factor, the idea of lab created meat is just unappealing to me.
Debator,
Yes FDA has deemed it safe to eat cloned meat for now, all i’m saying is that there is no LONGTERM study that has been done since this is a relatively new technology….so yes it’s safe but does the FDA know the longterm effect, the answer to that is NO…that would be one of the reasons I would feel unconfortable. And this goes to all the new technologies out there…Like there is no study of longterm effect of cell phones, studies are being done everyday but I’m not going to stop talking on the phone in the mean time. There are technologies that I would take “risks” on others I can do without.
To comment on my last sentence that you quoted I meant to say “there is absolutely no evidence on the longterm effect.”
I do not know why you are assuming that I eat GMF…I’m against GMF and No I do not think that God is going to change the way he gives life to animals or humans just because it’s the 21st…I also agree with you that the way the animals are treated are ungodly, however I love my Kitfo and Wot too much to stop eating meat…
I’m going to drop the argument on the religious aspect of this discussion…Let’s just say I strongly beleive it’s not right….U raise an excellent point on artificial insemination…hmm…so yes I pick and choose what is right and what is not…while I do not understand the need for cloning meat other than $$$ benefit, the artificial insemination is just a little push of our wonderful technology to give birth to those who can’t do it naturally…and somehow that does not feel wrong.
Let’s Leave the “patronizing” to the side as I really enjoy your arguments and enjoy reading your arguments, deal?
Sorry for misspelling your name…Debater
Mamitu…LOL…besAq gedelshgn:
…………………I say, time to be Vegan!
Debater: Since I mentioned the evil corporate… You give the consumer too much power. Consumers may discriminate given choices, but in a monopoly, duapoly, where we increasingly find ourselves, the choices are either limited or no choices at all in which case the consumer becomes a corporate play toy. So if you are for consumer rights, you had be on the side of choice and transparency and accountability. You and I mentioned corporate shareholder. You say be happy or assume ‘I’ will be happy when my shares in a company involved in cloning goes up. Not neccessarly. Its like saying I will be happy when the shares of companies in the military industry goes up. I am not. I know where the shells are falling; I know who is grieving. You want to see the employee mentioned in the same wavelength as the shareholder. But in many cases the power balance is not the same. In so far as employees have the right to unionize and power to negotiate with management, I agree with you….
Sara, you adding “Longterm” to you argument makes a big differene, and as i said above in responding to Confused, I’m okay with someone saying “okie, i see they have made their research and have come to their conclusion, but I just don’t think the research was done long enough”. That sounds a lot more reasonable than to state “There is absolutely no research done on the subject” kinda tone.
About Genetically Modified Food, (GMF), I would be my life on the fact that you DO eat GMF right now. We all do. As Ted said above, some sort of GMF technically has been going on for centuries. All the kitfo, veggies, bread – all has been tampered with genetically.
-hmm, again you need to expand on your idea of God. God encompasses the past, the present and the future. he is constantly changing the way he does things. We are ALWAYS under the realm of God. You can’t limit the role of God to cloned and uncloned animals. He owns everything : ) just read again waht you wrote “I dont’ think God is goign to change the way he gives life to animals or humans just because it is the 21st Century” that is so wrong on so many levels. You actually THINK you have an IDEA on how God works? Don’t mistake your current relative understanding of God to the True nature of God. This is again, why i have a difficulty is addressing arguments with a God reference in it. The God factor is really and X factor cause ppl simply talk about something they don’t have an absolute knowledge about.
-okie, basically, you are saying that you feel the way you do, and there really is no clear cut reason or formula to what is acceptable to you or not. For some people, artificial insemination is wrong and that whole technology should not exist. But it does exist nontheless. The same can be argued about cloned meat, it may be uncomfortable to you, but that should not stop it from existing (unlabeled ; ) ).
If you love your kitfo and Wot too much to stop eating meat, then don’t let cloned meat stop you from enjoying your kitfo and Wot (doro Wot, i assume ; ) )
look, again if cloned meat is out there in the meat industry it is cause YOU (WE, all of us consumers) allowed it in some shape or form. The drive to lower prices, to be more efficient, etc has led to this. You drive the corporate market as much as it drives you. You say nothing at the “affordable” meat your grocery provides at the expense of animal abuse and say nothing cause you enjoy having kitfo more often than is needed. Do you realize kitfo, tibs, and doro wat was a special treat ppl have on holidays or atleast weekends? There animals are not raised is mass corporate farms, therefore they are more expensive. They were respected, had value, and their meat tasted good and is even more healthy. I have no problem with that model, BUT the consumer culture present in the society we live in now started with hormones, GMF, and no one says anythign. All of a sudden, cloning comes to the pic and everyone cries foul.
Last but not least, din’t mean to “patronize” you, babygirl. appologiez if you felt that way : )
The Debater:
I agree with you that innovation and $$$ go hand in hand. Okay, let’s say that innovation/money is the motive behind animal cloning; the question is what is our right as consumers? Yes, cloned meat freaks out people. All I’m saying is give them the option to pick and choose what they want at the grocery store, and let them make an informed decision. Isn’t the corporations concern overriding the public interest here?
I’m not a scientist, but I don’t think that 4 to 6 years worth of data is enough to conclude that cloned meat is safe for human beings. They ought to give it more time to try it out. I feel that the people who engineered this crap know that it has repercussions in the long run. But, that’s not their concern right now, though. And I don’t think they want to get their arms around that at least at this point. They would rather RECALL it after the fact, than wait too long to get it into the market…DAH
But, you know, what really worries me is, where do you let that stop? There ought to be a balance between innovation and consumers’ rights. I mean if you let it slide and at least not voice your opinion about it, they will keep doing it. What ever the next big breakthrough is going to be, nothing will stop them from trying it on humans, if needs be. And guess what, that experiment is not going to be on a white kid from Kansas – does the HIV trial in Libya ring any bells?
You know, I don’t want to deep dive into religion and all that, but I think that when God created us he made us distinct human beings. That’s why I have different physical traits and genetic makeup than you do. The scariest thing about animal cloning to me is some sort of epidemic wiping out the entire animal species sometime in the future. Think about it, if all the cloned animals are going to have the same genetic makeup, there won’t be any animal that will withstand the epidemic, since they all have the same genetic makeup. There has to be some type of genetic diversity within species, and you just have to let it evolve naturally. That’s why we are not monkeys today.
Well, what else can I say? You are rally good at steering thoughts.
My concerns are about health generally but I am not excluding ethical reasons regarding the cloning process itself and what it is done to the cloned animals, but no, in principle I am not agaisnt cloning, and I want watchdog groups and ethical committees to keep an eye on the scientist all the time, I also want to know if there are compelling reasons for cloning cows or any other animal have we run out of real cows and hence this is a food crisis or is it done for other purposes, and what they are?….
On the part of big businesses it would be foolhardy of them to ignore the concerns of people who are agaisnt it on religious grounds, arent they part of the paying public and potential customers?..and if they are to eat, or entertain the notion of eating cloned meat they are the ones that need convincing since they are part of the paying public, if not it might result in people deciding with their feet and either becoming vegeterian or start eating fish like me, lol….and where would big meat businesses be then, or their shareholders…
Dear Debater I agree with you entirely about the above statement and I am ethical where animals are concerned or at least I try and generally food too.
I no longer eat meat and it is almost 8 years now…did I stop becuase I had ethics in mind?…I am not sure, for me it was a case of whenever I go to the butchers to buy meat when I use to eat it and see the bodies of the dead animal hanging thru hooks and I would look at the body of the animal that it used ot be with all its organs for sold for consumption and someone would buy a shoulder or a leg or the tenderest meat would be someplace else that it would always dawn on me that this “meat” hanging thru the butcher’s hook was once a living breathing animal that used to mind its own business and now it is dead meat….After years of feeling squeamish about the whole thing and avoiding going to the butcher like the black death I woke up one day and decided I have had enough and didnt want to eat meat anymore, and chicken too when found out about battery chickens and the strangling and the electricuting them to death…so I stopped eating that too and dont eat eggs, on the rare occasion that I might do I make sure it has come from a free range farm when the hens are not living in cages in their hundreds where they die by the dozen I saw few programs made covertly by animal right groups about chicken farmers and it was the most harrowig thing I ever saw, filthy too the environment those hens have to live in…I couldnt stomach that so no eggs from battery chicken….All this will make me sound sickly sentimental about animals but so be it there are worse things to be in life. I eat fish so I know I am being hypocritical but I am not without ethics about food and animals…
okay so maybe it was wrong of me to assume to know how God works….so good point on that…How would you feel if we started cloning humans? Would it be acceptable for you? what would justify that? Would that be God’s way to create/bring humans in this world?
Here is where I draw the line, If u clone an organ to save people’s life so be it, if u clone an animal to use that animal in a lab for research purpose on a new drug so be it…if u clone just so corporate America can put more $$$ into their pockets then big no no. The only way I will accept the need for cloned meat is if there is a shortage of food in the world and this can help alleviate the problem…and of course it has to be labeled.
Science is a wonderful thing…let’s use it to better this world and not necessarily think of profits all the time….I know that’s almost impossible in the world we live in.
We (the consumers) drive the meat industry to a certain point. Personally If I can find a supermarket where I knew for sure the animals were not being abused then I would choose that supermarket over the cheaper one…correct me if I’m wrong but when GMF was first introduced wasn’t it a big deal??? I remember it being that,but maybe I’m wrong…there is still to this day no mandatory labeling for GMF…I do not understand why not…FDA responds to industry pressures and at the same time consumers concerns..it does not always have the consumers interest at heart!
Hi Confused, seems like we are actually agreeing on most issues now. I totally can relate and agree with you on your last paragraph, especailly.
.
I have been tryin to get more info on this – the real reason for cloning cows. There isn’t enough info out there, or probably it is just overshadowed by the overwhelming articles just talking about people’s reaction towards cloned meat (very similar to what is going on here). But from one interview i heard weeks back from a reprsentative of the cloning group, seems like they really just wanted to do it . . . “cause they can”. he seems like one of those hardcore scientists that was just excited about the possibility to do it, and i don’t think he himself was that much motivated with making $$. he just sounded like someone excited to be doing something new and “innovative” and seemed rather confused why ppl would have a problem with eating cloned meat as long as it is certified to be safe and was “exactly as the meat of uncloned meat” according to him.
I do think ther are currently watch dogs that do exactly waht you say ought to be done. Look, to me the bigger picture i am trying to portray in a way is weather you like it or not, this is the direction the world is going. This is teh way the world has ALWAYAS been going. We have always been experimenting with things, boundaries get pushed, most ppl resist, there are always all sorts of questions raised “waht if this , what if that” . . . yet things need to move forward (they DO infact move forward weather we like it or not, as I said). If we are afarid of all the potential negative impacts that COULD happen. This is not limited to science and cloning, but pretty much almost everything in life. I still see the whole resistence atleast for the most part based on fear of the unknown.
And really, if people really do NOT want cloned meat, no one is going to force the consumer. The whole debate about label vs not labeling cloned meat can easily be solved too. The clonners don’t want to label their meat as clonned, FINE. The market will create industries that will sell uncloned meat and will label it unclonned. If ppl are willing to pay extra for the uncloned meat, the cloned meat bsuiness will go out of business. Like i said, don’t underestimate the power of the consumer. Ppl need to be procative tho’ tehy just can’t sit back and say “ewwww, cloned meat sucks”, do nothing about it, are not willing to do their research or pay extra for the alternative, and just play victim.
Sara thanks for your reposne, i will respond to your points now . . .
How do I feel if we started to clone humans? I don’t know. To be honest, I don’t know if I have a strong feeling to it one way or another. before I answer a question like that, i would like to know how it is going to affect me directly or not. I don;t care too much one way or the other about who . Look – the world is a very big place. not everyone thinks like you, not everyone maybe believe in what you beleive. Also, there is a difference between having a personal opinion about waht we want and beleive for ourselves vs institunalizing issues. the fact that I personally don’t like the idea of cloned humans or have no desire to clone humans is VERY different from NOT allowing someone else who may really want to clone his best friend or whatever. this is the source of many conflicts in the world. People for some reason are very defensieve and thin skinned about too much stuff that I personally think they should not care about. To me when I see a debate like “should we clone humans or not”, and i hear the various response (most of which are very passionate one way or the otehr), it buffles me. Mostly cause the issues ppl raise are what would happen in extreme situation. Like “ohh, what if we create a monster? what if we create a specie with identical genes that will get wiped out?” look, in reality, that is not how it is gonna work. Not everyone will be intersted to clone or get cloned. some ppl will be cloned, and how is that goign to affect the general public at large?? (beign affected by the “ewww factor” or beign a wintess to someting that maybe against your relgion is not acceptable reasons)
When the issue of cloning cows is discussed, i noticed some ppl saying “ohh, are we running out of real cows?” and to the person asking that question, that seemed like a very intuitive and most natural thing to ask, but to me I say “why do we have to run out of cows before we start cloning cows?” or I hear “what is wrong with real cows”. and i answer “nothing! no one said there is anythign wrong with real cows!”. Why do ppl automatically imply that real cows are running out. That is just a subconcious, almost undiscpited assumption ppl automatically seem to make and never seem to question why they assume the things they do. Basically, if I say I want to clone a cow right now, the first question I will probably get is “Why do you want to clone a cow”, and I can say “hmm, i don’t know. cause i can. I been working real hard on how to do it for years and i finally figured it out. Also, I want to sell the meat (and don’t worry, the meat is safe, has FDA approval. if you have a problem with FDA’s approval tho, that is a totally different issues. take it up with FDA)” *** ASIDE: for the purpose of this debate, we have to assume that the FDAs standards and ethics have to be respected. If we are goign to question FDAs standards, taht is a whole different issues and we have to narrow down our debate’s points. I am not claiming the FDA is perfect, but we have to ASSUME that it is INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY****** . Then ppl will get really nervous and say “why?? are we running out of cows?? Aren’t clonned meat going to take over unclonned meat?? Is cloned meat going to make me grow hornes?? isn’t having a specie with identical genetic makeup going to make the specie weak for epidemic diseas?” . . .all these questions just start coming and really as me the cloner I don’t have to answer to them. I can turn each question around back to you and say “Why do YOU assume we are running out of cows??” Why do YOU assume cloned meat will take over uncloned meat and all meat in the world will be cloned??, the one about the growing hornes is ridiculous, but again all I have to say is “THE FDA APPROVED IT, if you have a problem with the way FDA’s standards, that is a totally different topic” Ppl then will probably say “ohh, atleast label your meat as cloned”. I will say “nope. why?? Why shoudl I label my meat. my cloned meat is just as good as the uncloned meat my competion is selling (both FDA approved). and the FDA NEVER told me that I would have to label my meat as uncloned when i first talked to the FDA about my idea.”. again, examine more deeply WHY should I have to put a label on it? Remember, it is still MEAT. It is still SAFE MEAT (according to the FDA). Being forced to put a label on your meat is really a LEGAL issue, and there is a whole lot of reasons behind teh scene to define what ought to have a label or not. You may volunterly want to put on a label on your product if you think it will help market your product, but to REQUIRE someone to put a label, you need to have good reason. Again, it seems like there is no legal reason to REQUIRE the companies to label their meat as Cloned. If you require cloned meat to label it cloned, then how about forcing fisherman who fish from the eat coast to label their fish/seafood as “from east coast” (cause apparently sea food from east coast has higher mercury or soemthing). Then how about forcing a farmer who lives x distance from a radioactive ground from labeling his meat?? and waht is that X distance?? 50 miles, 100? 1000? who decides?? Atleast even in these examples, the heath aspect is being questioned (the dist from radioactive and mercury level) but for someting that is SAFE according to the FDA, why label it as being different??? anyway, the point is . . . do you see what kind of can of worms this opens?? That is teh same as required ALL SORTS OF LABELS TO BE PUT, label cause you live in VA, cause you have 3 cats. maybe some ppl find it offensive to have a meat from a cow that lived in a farm with 3 cats.
Look, i may have digressed, but the point it . . . your (i don’t mean you personally, but the general “you”) logic is NOT the only logic in the world. Just cause you think cloned meat is “out there”, for some, it really may not be. As long as it is deemed safe by the FDA, their argument is they do NOT have to be treated any different from a farmer of ‘real cows”. and you HAVE to appreciate their point. goign back to cloning humans. my answer is . . . why is it any of my business waht someone else wants to do??? The world is a very big place, 6 billion ppl, each with their own wants and desires. you are bound to have some ppl that are FOR clonning, some are AGAINST cloning. They are equally as passionate about their points. If you were a judge in this situation, waht would you do? . . .if you ask me, you will HAVE TO ALLOW cloning. cause if you refuse cloning, then it is NOT fair for the ppl that want to clone (even if it is 1 single guy). To me, that is more the mature way to handle it. IT IS MORE FAIR TO ALLOW PPL’s WANTS (the positive) THAN TO GRANT WHAT PPL DON’T WANT (the negatives). The ppl who DON’T want always have the option to ignore wahtever it is they DON”T WANT. You cannot argue that the it is NOT fair for the ppl who don’t want humans to be clonned to allow some ppl to colne humans. This same argument goes towards a whole bunch of other stuff to me, gay marriage, abortion, hmmm, whatever. If you personally don’t want to do it, FINE. Don’t marry someone from your own gender, don’t abort YOUR child, but it is totally different to stop other ppl from doing what they want to do with their lives. One is the start of fanaticism. One is about tolerance. Of course some ppl will try to bring religion into this. But you gotta understand that your religion is YOUR religion, and other ppl may have other religions or no relgion at all. that is why I said you cannot bring religion into such discussions and I will easily dismiss such arguments. We do NOT live in a Theocracy (althoguh Bush is def pusing the boundary), therefore relgion should be left out of makign any LEGAL arguments. These are all really LEGAL arguments, at the end of the day.
This is how wars start. people not appreciating this simple point of view.
to end this, again, i may have seem to have gone all over the place, but really I think it covers most arguments I’ve heard so far. You have to look beyod your personal feeling at times. And if we reexamine msot of your inital feelings, we may find them to be . . . nothing more than silly. And Sara, you must admit you have changed a lot of your initial views. You have opened up the possiblities to waht you would tolerate and what you won’t. Its almost like you are not the same person who had those initial feelings. now imagine this, if one person’s views between two days can differ so much, imagine how many views there are in the world? That is why the law has to be as broad as possible to include as many options, it is always good to have more options! sure beats the alternative, having not enoguh or no options!
last but not least, Sara, you have plenty of options to buy organic food. Just gotta do some reseach!
Dear Debater
It seems we do and I know it is not the same thing but I support stem cell research and organ donatgion with consent and some would see that as un-Godly too and few other things. I just want to know why cloning animals is an option at this point and what it entails?…
Ok it is this type of scientist I want watched by half a dozen watch dog agencies who want to do somehting just because he “can”. he sounds scary and isnt confusing on the part of a scientist to just want to do something becuase it can be done with no specific scientific aim in mind
And what might be confusing for people is that even though they are told cloned meat might soon be on the menu no one is telling them why, that is not good enough I feel, thank God I am not meat eater and dont have to decide…
Agree, people can vote with their feet and purses in droves away from cloned meat business if they dont want to, but even then they are going to be penalised for that arent they if the uncloned meat is going to be more expensive and that is not fair practise because all who want to eat real cows meat may not be able to afford it if the price is put up for unclonned meat and it is a bullish way of getting them to buy cloned meat. That is not fair or right i feel. It is like telling people ” you can refuse all you want based on your Godly beleifs, dont worry though by God we will get you through your pocket by making the meat you want more expensive and then you will be forced to buy the one you were objecting to” …what power does the consumer have when “not in good faith” business practices such as these will be used agaisnt them?, and they will be…
The Debater,
I’m kinda curious the cloning business impacts on small scale poor farmers. Is it going to be the ususal “the big fish eats, the small fish”? Any thoughts?
Hi Grand Ma, I will answer your question first b4 Confused cause it may take shoter.
the way I see it, the cloning business impact on small scale poor farmers will be to the advantage of the small scale poor farmers. I assume these small time farmers produce meat from real cows and that the majority of meat consumers would prefer meat from real cows (uncloned meat). Think about it, people would be looking for meat from uncloned cows and that would drive the business for small farmers, right?
I still stand by my position that the consumer is the driver behind what ultimately is going to happen with cloned meat. It seems like initially the cost of cloned meat may even be greater than uncloned meat. I saw someone quote 15-20 thousand dollars to clone a cow right now? so obviously if the cloning companies plan to pass on that cost to the customer, I doubt there would be any chance of cloned meat competing in the market place. Think about it, why would you want to spend 15k to clone a cow and sell it UNLABELED and have it basically compete and sell for teh same price with meat from uncloned cow that may have cost, . . .maybe a few hundred dollars, if that. Again, I really don’t know what the marketing plan is of these cloning companies, but atleast initially, it seems like they may find it hard to even break even, much less make profit from selling cloned meat. Meaning, it will be a great advantage to small farmers who seem to have much less operating costs than the producers of cloned meat.
The only possiblity I see small farmers (that sell meat from uncloned cows) get affected potentially in a negative way is if down the line, the cost of producing cloned meat becomes much cheaper than the cost of producing uncloned meat. In that case, then the cloning companies can flood the market with cheap cloned meat. BUT, even then, it is still up to the consumer to drive what ends up happening because as I said, even if the clonned meat is unlabeled, producers of uncloned meat can label their meat as uncloned. If a lot of ppl choose to eat cheaper cloned meat, then that would drive up the price of uncloned meat proprtionally cause the market share of uncloned meat would have lost some of its customers to the cloned meat market. Basically, what ends up happening is the cloned meat market and the uncloned meat market will have to compelte with eachother, and depending on what the customer wants, the price will get adjusted accordingly. Small farmers may get affected positively or negatively based on the market drive – again, all in the hands of the consumer. In fact, ultimately, the very existence of cloned adn uncloned meat is realy going to be up to the consumer. If no one wants cloned meat, it will disappear from the market. If everyone wants cloned meat, then it will be really popular. If people end up prefering cloned meat to uncloned meat, then all meat will be cloned and uncloned meat will be the a thing of the past.
Debater,
Thanks for your response. Appreciated! The consequences remain to be seen.
Confused,
Last week, the mercury issues in fish is popping up again on the news and i was thinking about you since, fish is your main diet now. It’s used to be Tuna, now “Sushi” is under attack so, watch out girl. To me, Sushi is not about the taste it’s more a trend. I know, it’s hard to think eating Sushi makes you look cool or sophisticated, but it does. They always warn women for fertility risk and if you don’t have a child right now and plan to have, it’s good to keep in mind what they said. The fish news always scared the hell out of me
Also, I forgot to mention to you, (in case you’ve not seen it) approximatley two months ago on CBS sunday morning program (you may check it from archive file), they were revealing organic fish, salmon.. from the “farm fish” type fish and it was interesting to see how we’ve been ripped as a consumer. I’m not a vegan, but i love seafood and i was shocked by what it’s been said on that program. Wouldn’t you think “farm fish” is equivalent to clone meats?
Dear Grandma….
Yes mercury in fish worries me I havent seen recent news, the last report I saw was last year advicing all women of chilf bearing age to minimise the intake of fish because of the mercury content as that was then said to affect unborn foetuses and cause learning disablities in later life, soon as we recover form that news we are also told fish is changing gender or rather differences in their hormones but this time not because of mercury….
I am not much into sushi unless it is vegeterian sushi, the fish I eat is either tuna, sole, or salmon cooked
, for Omega 3 content we are supposed to have and Grandma I agree in Metropolitan cities it is seen as a cool to eat sushi but I cant really face it myself cool or not so whenever I eat it which isnt often it is the vegeterian version. I like other sea food too except oysters I tried it once, never again Grandma it was awful, few years have passed since I last ate it and I can still remember how awful it was lol….
Last week, the mercury issues in fish is popping up again on the news and i was thinking about you since, fish is your main diet now. It’s used to be Tuna, now “Sushi” is under attack so, watch out girl. To me, Sushi is not about the taste it’s more a trend. I know, it’s hard to think eating Sushi makes you look cool or sophisticated, but it does. They always warn women for fertility risk and if you don’t have a child right now and plan to have, it’s good to keep in mind what they said. The fish news always scared the hell out of me
Thank you Grandma I will watch it, whislt I was checking the cruel things done to chicken and sheep and cows I forgot to check what the organic fish farming crowd were up to. Good timing and all as I am now beginning to get squeamish about eating sea food and fish for the same reasons I stopped the earth animals… Have a happy Sunday…..
Cloned animals go through extensive generational studies before they are approved for general human consumption. It’s been done for over 40 years with plants and so far no problems have been found. People are paranoid. When they hear the word cloning what they imagine is stuff they’ve seen on the tv and movies –horribly gone experiments and people with deformed faces and bodies. This is not the case here. The science of cloning has been immensely tested for more than 50 years and time and time again its been proven to be of no harm. Half the drinks you drink and the foods you eat are genetically modified. The only difference this time is instead of cloned plants you will be eating cloned animals. So chill out. Don’t panic. The FDA would not put 300 million people at risk if it wasn’t safe.
Debater,
I might have changed my initial feelings, but that’s the whole point of a discussion/debate, right? To listen/read to others and reconsider if they make more sense.
I agree with you that the law needs to be broad…
Endeee How about my want when I do NOT want to eat cloned meat for reasons X,Y,Z, shouldn’t there be a label telling me which one is cloned and which one isn’t….U’re right if it doesn’t directly affect me I should not bother but this does affect me and I would like to know what I put in my mouth and therefore would only be fair to require a label….I really don’t understand the big deal with labels…just because there’a a label saying it’s cloned meat does not make it automatically bad….???
Hi Sara, i’m glad we are agreeing on most things, let me answer some of your issues.
-if you do NOT want to eat cloned meat under x,y,z; you DO have a right not to eat cloned meat. You don’t even need to have any reason. But that does NOT mean you have the right to say cloned meat should not be sold in stores, or even it should be labeled. I explained why I think it is legally going to be difficult to do this in my response. However, I did say that producers of uncloned meat can label their meat as uncloned, and all you have to do is simply only buy meat that is labeled uncloned and leave the unlabled meat as potentially cloned.
like i said above, it is difficult to require the companies to put a label cause of legal issues ( if you require cloned meat to be labeled then what if everyone comes up with a request for a label to be put on for any reason such as labeling meat from cows that lived with 3 cats, or labels from a meat where the farmer lived close to a power line.). But you don’t have to worry about this cause you providers of uncloned meat will me more than happy to make sure their meat is unclonned. so your worry is solved.
watching this video reminded me this article and just wanted to share with Bernos folks
Very sad!
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/02/17/usdabeef.recall.ap/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
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